Sanity Check

[NatashaBatsford]

Hey all

I'm trying to find my MiL's family and seem to be finding everything but her direct line at the moment.

I have found some stuff, but it doesn't seem to hang together well in my head and I just wanted to have one of you wise owls review it.

Mother in Law is Janet ROLFE.

Her father was Laurence Edwin Vivian ROLFE, born 1920 in Newbury. MiL doesn't know about her uncles and aunts except that she had an uncle called 'Jack' (Leslie Gordon in reality) who it looks like was born in 1914.

Both of these birth entries show the mother's maiden name as BOWLEY. There are also two other children that come up with the same details, Frederick and Dorothy.

Now, from Laurence Edwin Vivian's birth certificate, I know his mother was Elizabeth BOWLEY and father was Francis Henry ROLFE.

I know Francis was in the RFC (I have his record) and that HIS father was Henry ROLFE.

And that's about all I really know.

I can't seem to track down reliable census or BMD info for anyone in the family.

Would anyone be able to have a loko and see if they think this is one huge great white elephant??

Thanks
Tash

[willow]

Birth
Francis Henry Rolfe
Year 1883 Qtr Jun Dist: Newbury Vol 2c Pg 235

1901 census RG13/1121 Folio 48
Henry Rolfe Head 42 b Newbury, Berkshire...Dairyman, milk
Emily Rolfe Wife 42 b Kintbury, Berkshire
Frances H Rolfe Son 18 b Newbury
Rose Rolfe Dau Dau 12 b Newbury
Frederick Rolfe Son 10 b Newbury
Daisy Rolfe Dau 7 b Newbury
Annie Rolfe Dau 6 b Newbury
Ethel Rolfe Dau 3 b Newbury
Hope Cottage, York Rd, Newbury, Berkshire



Sue

[Peter Goodey]

I know Francis was in the RFC (I have his record) and that HIS father was Henry ROLFE.

Do you mean in WW1? What records are they? If the document shows Henry Rolfe as next-of-kin, that doesn't really tie up with a son born in 1914.

[NatashaBatsford]

Do you mean in WW1? What records are they? If the document shows Henry Rolfe as next-of-kin, that doesn't really tie up with a son born in 1914.

................ aaaaaaaah nuts.

This is why I need people like you to sanity check what I've done.

Yes we're looking at his attestation papers here, next of kin is shown as Henry ROLFE, father, a milkman, in 1917.

I have Francis Henry's birth certificate:

21/2/1883, Father Henry Rolfe (Milkman), mother Emma Rolfe, formally Fisher, born Newbury.

I'm more confused than I was before now:

If the BMD index shows Laurence's parents as Francis and Elizabeth (formally Bowley), there are other children with the same details that follow the few whisps of info I have about the family, then

a) why is there no mention of Elizabeth in his 1917 attestation papers
b) why can't I find a marriage record?

[v.wells]

Natasha

Francis may have married Elizabeth before he signed up and may not have been included in attest. papers. It depends if his CO was detail oriented. Have you checked the Complete GRO for the marriage? - it may have been misspelled as Lawrence.

[Peter Goodey]

But the only birth certificate you have is for the 1920 birth, isn't that right? I think you would want the 1914 birth certificate as well otherwise you're only guessing who the parents were.

You seem to have a birth certificate that ties up with the attestation papers. But can you be sure that those documents tie up with the man who was Lawrence's father?

If you confirm the earlier births, then it may be a case of being one of the funny things that people do when confronted by officialdom, particularly ones who shout at you .

It may be that he thought that, if he wasn't legally married, he could only give his father's name as next of kin.

[NatashaBatsford]

Thanks guys

In terms of Laurence's father, no you're right, I can't be sure that the attestation papers are for the same Francis H Rolfe.

However, there doesn't seem to be a proliferation of Francis H Rolfe's in Berkshire around this time, and while I have a birth certificate from 1883 for Francis, father a milkman called Henry in Newbury, and the attestation papers list Henry, a milkman as the father, I feel fairly safe in saying they are the same.

I also believe I can fairly accurately say that the Francis in the RAF is the same Francis that becomes Laurence's father because on both the birth cert, and the attest papers, Francis is described as a photographer, of the RAF.

The big, big question I have is the marriage.

Can anyone do better than I can and find the record of the Rolfe/ Bowley marriage? I have looked at BMD and IGI and even on A....... with no luck

Tash

[Happy Baby]

Hi, just read your post and i have been looking for information about Francis Rolfe because he is my great grandfather, my grandmother was Dorothy Rolfe. I have never heard of a lawrence as being one of the children. Would you like to give me some more information. My grandmother said that Elizabeth and Francis was never married and that he left her with small children. Elizabeth did marry Mr Honey and had Elizabeth (Betty Honey) in the 1920's.

Be great to talk more.

Regards

Lesley

[NatashaBatsford]

Hi Lesley

I've PMd you with the location of my master tree online, and it has all the info on there that I have.

I'm really worried about your grandmother's comment that Francis and Elizabeth never married because on Lawrence's birth certificate it does say Elizabeth Rolfe (formerly Bowley).

I would LOVE to know more about what you know of the family, what I have managed to get hold of has been very hard fought with none of the living rellies I know willing or able to help

Speak soon

Tash

[Happy Baby]

I have spoken to my auntie and she can not remember a Lawrence. She remembers the same as me. There was Leslie, Fred, Vic, Maisie, Harold, Dorothy. Always thought my grandmother was the baby of the family. I do have a picture of the family some where. I will have a look out for it tomorrow or thursday when i have a quite moment without the children. Also, bit worrying that you have that my grandmother died at 3 years old. She died in 2004 at the old age of 88. I find it really hard researching family history, because never too sure you have the correct details. I also have a family tree that Harolds daughter gave me some years ago, sadly she has now died. I have the same problem because my mother has passed away so have to hope my aunties can remember.

I think Elizabeth would have put on the birth certificate that they were marriage because in that age you would not want to be un married, but do remember my grandma saying they never did.