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Thread: "London" School

  1. #1
    Jan65
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    Question "London" School

    My 5xg grandfather, George Heslop, was a Schoolmaster, and after my long investigations I believe that in the 1820s he may have been head of a school near the village of Newsham, North Yorkshire, called Earby Hall.

    (George died in 1841, just a couple of weeks before the census. He had been succeeded, I believe, by a Ralph Simpson who appears in the census at the school with his family and the pupils, so presumably it was a boarding school.)

    On the Newsham Village website this school is described as being a "London School".

    My query, therefore, is what was a "London School"?

    An interesting co-incidence is that I believe George may have married in London, and his wife may have had two of their children in London, so I was wondering whether George may have trained in London (I know that being formally trained wasn't common in this time period) possibly in Cambridge or Oxford (?) If this was the case, are there any records of people who were awarded degrees at this time?

    Any help whatsoever very gratefully received - George fascinates me as a lot of my ancestors were poor and illiterate, so he sort of stands out!

    Janice

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    An interesting question - I can't help you much, I'm afraid, other than to confirm that Baines' Directory of 1822-23 lists as schoolmasters in Newsham:
    Heslop George (academy)
    Simpson Ralph

    I couldn't see George in either the Oxford or Cambridge Alumni lists, but from what you say, he might have been at London University - UCL was founded in 1826, King's College in 1828-9. I don't know whether their records have been published, and if so, where they can be found, but someone else might.

    Arthur

    Edit: put "Earby Hall" and school in a search engine and see what you get - I found an interesting article from the Earby Chronicles (actually a different Earby) which gave some of the history of the school - apparently it might have been the model for Dickens' Dotheboys Hall...
    Last edited by arthurk; 18-10-2008 at 7:45 PM. Reason: Added a bit

  3. #3
    Jan65
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    Arthur, thank you for your response and suggestions. I have already seen the reference to George and Ralph in Baines 1823 (George's son - another George - is also there, he's a butcher).

    And I'd also seen the link about the school maybe being a model for Dotheboys Hall which was fascinating and also mentioned Ralph Simpson if I remember correctly.

    Thank you very much for looking for George in the Oxford and Cambridge Alumni lists, that's much appreciated. What a shame he's not there.

    Forgive my ignorance - does UCL stand for University College London or something like that? George was born in 1760 so I don't think he can have been there if it wasn't founded until 1826.

    I am trying to put George in London for the 1780s because I've not been able to find a definite marriage for George to his wife Deborah Ann in any place near to Newsham or the surrounding Kirkby Ravensworth area where they lived out most of their lives, but there is a possibility in St Mary, Marylebone, London, on 5 November 1782, to an Ann Turner.

    This date would fit perfectly because it's possible that their first child, Mary, was born in London just ten months after this date. Although the marriage is to an Ann, I believe that Deborah Ann may have been known by her middle name Ann, as she is referred to as Ann on her gravestone. (To explain - she's listed for her own death as Deborah Ann, but one of their children is buried with them, and is described as being the child of "the above Ann Heslop".)

    Sorry for this long-winded response and I hope it makes sense. Perhaps I'm doing the wrong thing by trying to place George in London in the way that I am, but if he was there taking some sort of formal training for his occupation, perhaps that's how he met Deborah Ann and ended up marrying in London. Or perhaps one day I'll come across a more definite and local marriage for him!

    Many thanks again for your help.

    Janice

  4. #4
    Mutley
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    This is a complete and total long shot and if I am talking utter rubbish, I apologise now, but...

    I seem to remember recently, something about degrees being awarded by the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is a practice that goes back hundreds of years and was something to do with Oxford and Cambridge, at some time, being unable to give degrees, I cannot remember why.

    The connection also being Lambeth Palace (London). I cannot, for the life of me think where I saw or heard this.

    It is just one of those silly facts that you store at the back of the mind and then forget the important details.

    Might be worth wander around google.

  5. #5
    drimnagh
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    Hi all,

    Mutley.....I believe that the reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury awarding degrees was on "Who Do You Think You Are".

    Joe

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    Hi

    This makes very interesting reading as one of my lot was a schoolmistress in 1841.

    My ancestor Hannah Woodcock nee Robins was born c1780 and is described as a schoolmistress in Bletchingdon, Oxfordhsire in the 1841 census, not born in county. She died in 1846 so I havent found her birthplace.

    She wed Thomas Woodcock in St Mary Magdalen, Oxford in 1800 but I cannot yet find her in an Uni or school records etc. I would like to try and find a birthplace for her as well.

    Ben

  7. #7
    Mutley
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    Quote Originally Posted by drimnagh View Post
    Hi all,

    Mutley.....I believe that the reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury awarding degrees was on "Who Do You Think You Are".

    Joe
    Ah! that probably be it, though I did not see the program, I was told about it and thought,
    "I must remember that..."

  8. #8
    Wirral
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    Are these 2 any connection to your family? From Alumni Oxoniensis:
    HESLOP John, s. Thomas, of Leybourne Yorks, cler., Queens Coll., matric. 25 June 1774 age 19.
    HESLOP Richard s. George of Kirkby Ravenside, Yorks, pleb., Queen's Coll., matric. 5 June 1783 age 20. University Coll. B.A. 1787, M.A. 1789.

  9. #9
    Wirral
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny1982 View Post
    She wed Thomas Woodcock in St Mary Magdalen, Oxford in 1800 but I cannot yet find her in an Uni or school records etc.
    Women didn't go to university at that time. The first college for women at Oxford wasn't established until 1878. Girton College at Cambridge was a little earlier (1869).

  10. #10
    Jan65
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    Thank you all for your replies, much appreciated.

    Mutley and Drimnagh, I will have a google of this suggestion and see what comes up.

    Benny1982 - how interesting, because I also have Woodcock ancestors, who are connected through marriage to the Heslops. George's grandson, William Heslop, married a Jane Woodcock in Stockton on Tees in 1834. Jane was from Whitby, North Yorkshire, and her parents were James and Mary, possibly nee Pinkney. Any connection?

    Wirral - thank you for finding these two entries for me. I don't recognise John, but think that Richard is definitely connected - I believe he must be my George's brother - both children of George senior. My Richard was born in 1762 and was baptised in Kirkby RavensWORTH. I believe he became a Reverend and I have his will - he died in 1809 - where he left everything he owned to a Matthew Holt, whose connection I've not been able to establish.

    Please could you explain the entry to me - my understanding is that he qualified at Queen's College on 5 June 1783 (but I don't understand the abbreviations "pleb" and "matric") and then gained a BA at University College in 1787, followed by an MA in 1789. Is this correct?

    Many thanks everyone for your input - does anyone know what was meant by a "London" School? I was hoping it means that the schoolmaster was formally trained in London! No-one seems to know.

    Janice

    PS - also I'm not sure what the Alumni Oxoniensis is, please would you mind explaining?
    Last edited by Jan65; 19-10-2008 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Just thought of something else ...

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