"London" School

[benny1982]

Hi Janice

Do you know where James Woodcock was born? Mine came from the Bletchingdon areas of Oxfordshire.

Wirral, if women didnt go to uni at the time of 1800, whre do you think she may have been trained as a schoolteacher?

Ben

[Jan65]

Hi Ben

I'm afraid that I don't know where James Woodcock was born, that's something I'm working on.

I think he married, possibly his second wife, Mary Pinkney, at Sunderland in 1810. They went on to have two children (that I know of) - Jane in 1811 (my ancestor) and Robert in 1821. James seems to have had two other children to a Mary in Whitby, one called Mary Ann in 1805 and another, William Hinds Woodcock in 1807. I don't know if these were illegitimate children with Mary Pinkney, or whether Mary Pinkney was his second wife, his first also being a Mary.

James was a master mariner, and in the 1830s he was a ship's captain. He died in 1843 in Stockton on Tees, where the family had lived since sometime between 1821 and 1828. The age given at his death was 60, which gives a birth year of round about 1783. But where, I don't know. From memory, there is no birth for him in Whitby St Mary, so he could have come from anywhere.

Any thoughts?

Janice

[benny1982]

Hi Janice

There were quite a few James Woodcocks born in around 1783 time. Did he leave a will? Were there other Woodcocks in the area in 1841 at the time?

Its the same with my Hannah Woodcock nee Robins. She died in 1846 aged 66 so born c1780. She was not from Oxon so she could have been born anywhere as well.

There were a lot of Robins down Gloucester and Warwick way. If I could find her in school records, this may help.

Ben

[Wirral]

Please could you explain the entry to me - my understanding is that he qualified at Queen's College on 5 June 1783 (but I don't understand the abbreviations "pleb" and "matric") and then gained a BA at University College in 1787, followed by an MA in 1789. Is this correct?

Many thanks everyone for your input - does anyone know what was meant by a "London" School? I was hoping it means that the schoolmaster was formally trained in London! No-one seems to know.

Janice

PS - also I'm not sure what the Alumni Oxoniensis is, please would you mind explaining?

Alumni Oxoniensis is the title of the book - it lists the Members of Oxford University.
Matric. is short for matriculated - ie became a member of the university.
Pleb. is short for plebian - "of the common people", ie not of the nobility.
I think that "London" school means that it was not a school for local children for all & sundry. From Google, it appears to have been a school for young gentlemen.

[Jan65]

Hi Janice

There were quite a few James Woodcocks born in around 1783 time. Did he leave a will? Were there other Woodcocks in the area in 1841 at the time?

Its the same with my Hannah Woodcock nee Robins. She died in 1846 aged 66 so born c1780. She was not from Oxon so she could have been born anywhere as well.

There were a lot of Robins down Gloucester and Warwick way. If I could find her in school records, this may help.

Ben

Hi Ben

Haven't been able to find a will for James, although have only looked at indexes online, I haven't dug any further.

There were no other Woodcocks in the Stockton area in 1841 at the time unfortunately. There is a Woodcock family at Whitby that I think are probably related (confusingly also a James and Mary! but that James was a Cabinet Maker). At least one of the children of this family - a William if I remember correctly - moved further north and settled at Guisborough.

I seem to have reached a brick wall with James but I'm sure something will turn up eventually!

Janice

[Jan65]

Alumni Oxoniensis is the title of the book - it lists the Members of Oxford University.
Matric. is short for matriculated - ie became a member of the university.
Pleb. is short for plebian - "of the common people", ie not of the nobility.
I think that "London" school means that it was not a school for local children for all & sundry. From Google, it appears to have been a school for young gentlemen.

Wirral - thank you for the explanation of the abbreviations, all makes sense now. I had googled "London School" and not really found anything but I think you're probably correct in what you say. Earby Hall does seem to be a boarding school which would suggest to me that it was a higher class establishment rather than a provision for local children. I've been trying to trace some of the children's families to see what occupations their fathers had, with no success so far unfortunately. I'll keep chipping away.

If only George himself had appeared in that Alumni list, that would have been the icing on the cake. I wonder if he went to Cambridge rather than Oxford. I've googled and it looks like there is a similar book for Cambridge on CD that I may purchase, funds allowing.

Thanks so much for all your help, I do feel as though I'm getting somewhere now, slowly!

Janice

[Wirral]

I would ask if there is anyone who could do a lookup of the baptism registers for the 2 children who were born in London. The original registers often list the occupation of the father & sometimes the address at the time of baptism.

The John HESLOP that I found at Oxford later went to Sidney College, Cambridge where he got a BA, then an MA. He went on to become a deacon & then Vicar of Pampisford, Cambs.

[Jan65]

Hi Wirral

Luckily, I do have copies of these baptisms already from microfilm - a very distant Heslop relative that I have been in contact with kindly looked them up for me at his local Family Records Centre.

On the baptism of the first child, Mary, who was baptised in London in 1783, the image is obscured by something - mould? damp? - and the only words that can be read are "Mary, D of George and Deborah Ann Heslop .." The following word is probably George's occupation, going by the rest of the entries on the page, and possibly begins with the letter M, but it's impossible to read any further.

Their second child, Ann (my ancestor) was born at Dalton, Kirkby Ravensworth, N Yorks, in December 1784, but the next child, Jane, was another London one, baptised in October 1786. On that baptism, the only information written is "Jane Heslop D of George and Deborah Ann" .

The rest of their children were baptised at Kirkby Ravensworth. I don't know for sure if the London ones are theirs, especially with not being able to confirm George's occupation on the first one, but with the mother being a Deborah Ann, which I think is slightly unusual, I am assuming for the moment that they are. But is it likely that they would have two children baptised in London whilst another one that is sandwiched in between is in North Yorkshire?

Any thoughts on this, from anyone, would be most welcome.

Janice

[arthurk]

Just a bit of a catch-up...

Yesterday I mentioned UCL - I don't think anyone has confirmed yet that this is University College, London.

"Pleb" - in an Oxford context, I think this might mean Commoner, though I haven't been able to confirm this. These days, undergraduates are classified as Scholars (the most able/promising, who receive a small cash award), Exhibitioners (next rung down), and Commoners. I suspect the same titles may have been used for centuries, though I don't know if they will always have been applied in the same way. (Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the slight difference in the place name in the Alumni volume - I've often noticed minor mistakes like that.)

I checked the Cambridge Alumni for George Heslop, but didn't find him (see message #2).

Finally, you asked about a baptism in London 1783. If you were able to post a copy here, there are some clever folk who might be able to decipher it. I would normally suggest trying to get a copy of the Bishop's Transcript in case that is clearer, but I gather very few survive for London at that date. If you can tell us which parish the baptism was in, someone should be able to tell you if there are any BTs.

Arthur

[Jan65]

Thank you Arthur for your information and for checking the Cambridge Alumni for George, saving me some cash there! If only he'd been there ...

I would love to post the baptism record but don't know how to do it! To be honest, it's not really a question of deciphering it, rather that the words are completely obliterated by the mould/damp. However, I would still post it if someone could tell me how, just in case.

I'd love to know about the Bishop's Transcripts. The baptism was in September 1783, in St Olave, Southwark, Surrey.

Fingers crossed!

Janice