Who was Augustin ?

[SusanS]

ok, thanks for the tip re occupation. I need to keep searching with the Verrier link, I am told thru family lore that the name was originally de Verriere from France. I'll need to locate at least one more death certificate in the UK, for a place of birth which could eventually place me with a location in France. In the meantime can anyone recommend a reliable French family history website? thanks in advance.

[pottoka]

ok, thanks for the tip re occupation. I need to keep searching with the Verrier link, I am told thru family lore that the name was originally de Verriere from France. I'll need to locate at least one more death certificate in the UK, for a place of birth which could eventually place me with a location in France. In the meantime can anyone recommend a reliable French family history website? thanks in advance.

If you are hoping for a place of birth on a death certificate from England or Wales, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Compared to some other countries, there is very little information on certificates here. Take a look at this website to find out what you can expect: home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm#COL8 (put https:// in front)

If you do ever get a precise location in France for the birth place and you speak French, there is a site called genealogie.com. It's a paying site if you want to be able to pm other people and build a tree, but if you just want to be able to participate in the mains tendues and ask for a look-up in a particular place, then it's free. There are more and more départements who are putting their archives on-line; so far only Calvados - 14 - has made it a paying service, and everybody is up in arms about it.

Paris, for example, is online; having finally got round to seeing the film 'Wilde' yesterday, I made the most of it and looked up his death certificate. It was interesting, especially to see who one of the witnesses was; there's a lot of detail on a French certificate, but the one thing that they miss off is the cause of death!

If you need any help, give me a shout.

[lesleys]

But if I hadn't made the original post I might not have followed the trail at all. Thanks to your interest I have made some interesting discoveries even if not relevant to my own
For example there was a Joseph Dethier (Belgian) who opened the first Railway Hotel in London and legal papers going on for several generations are on A2A.
Another Dethier family, and possibly closer to Augustine, are traceable (with some gaps) through to 1901 - two brothers both b. France but British subjects.
I shall have to keep searching for the link to William Wallis, I suspect the answer may have something to do with his wife but as I have no idea where or when he married, only that his son William George was b abt 1818, (IGI has a possible bp in Marylebone which gives mother's name as Mary, but I cannot prove this is him) and as for his COrnish ancestors..........

An update for anyone who was following this thread.
I recently discovered that Louis Dethier was the son of the above mentioned Joseph. He had a pretty tough time having been told to stop a "Cake Lottery" he was running and which he had invested thousands and subsequently being made bankrupt, in 1861 and dying in a police cell in 1879 having been arrested for being drunk.

He had been married in 1856 to a Mary Strawson - of whom I have been unable to find a death (although a Jane Strawson (single) was living in the street that Louis was at before his Bankruptcy) and guess who was a witness at the marriage?
Augusta Dethier.

Also in the 1845 London PO directory is an entry at 30 Edward St for a Mrs Dethier.

The story is complicated by the fact that in 1841 Joseph is already managing the Euston Hotel and is with son Theodore, wife (?) Antoinette and two daughters. On the next page as a servant is his future second wife ( whose six children were born both before and after their marriage in 1850) Matilda Syrett. (sorry I forgot the Ref)
References to his will only mention two married daughters and the six children of Matilda. I cant help speculating on the fate of Joanna Daw.
And the other Dethier family, I'm pretty sure, was that of Joseph's brother Edouard.

[lesleys]

I found the image of the marriage of Joseph Dethier of Brussels and Joanna Daw of Stoke in Somerset at the Paris Chapel (1821), The signature does not match that on the marriage to Matilda Syrett in 1850 but I suppose his signature might have matured in 30 years.
He doesn't call himself Jean Joseph at the earlier marriage. But the marriage record of Louis ( Joseph Edmond Louis in full) quite clearly has his father as Joseph, hotel keeper.
I also found an Alien Entry for Louis Dethier in 1846 which would explain why I cant find him in 1841. Joseph seems to have gone back and forth quite a bit
The identification of Louis as son of Joseph come from the Stamford Mercury of 28 Dec 1860, reporting the cake lottery disaster.

I think I have gone about as far as I can and still not found the link to William Wallis but at least I know Austusta/ina existed!

[Coromandel]

Louis Dethier . . . had a pretty tough time having been told to stop a "Cake Lottery" he was running and which he had invested thousands and subsequently being made bankrupt, in 1861

Well, I'd never heard of cake lotteries until today, so thank you for that, lesleys. You learn something new every day on BG.

I was amazed to see in the 'Era' of 30 December 1860 that Louis Dethier 'had purchased £10,000 worth of cakes'!!! Even today you could get a lot of cake for £10,000 . . . unless you're having tea at Claridge's.

[lesleys]

and the case was quoted years later when someone wanted to run an Art Lottery. It's not surprising Louis was bankrupt - he wanted to share out the cake to everyone who had bought a ticket, they would have received one pound (weight) each but he had to be in court! I do hope it wasn't wasted!
It is a fascinating family, the use of multiple Christian names causes some confusion and I wish I could find Antoinette, who presumably died of disgust that Joseph was having children with one of the hotel serving girls! (Hence the late baptisms of Matilda's children)

[poodled]

Hello All,

I have been researching the Dethier family history since September and have just stumbled across your forum. Jean Joseph Dethier of the Great Northern hotel is my g.g.g grandfather, and his son William Jacques my g.g grandfather. I am trying to find out who William Jacques mother was, and have had trouble finding out. I see in your earlier discussions, you think Matilda was his mother, however, he was born before their marriage in 1850, and he was born in Belgium. However, he was born some time after Jean Josephs marriage to Joanna Daw. Could he have been married to Antoinnte inbetween? Could someone post me the link to the marriage info that you found on Jean Josephs marriage to Joanna Daw and the census info that shows Louis as I am having trouble finding both! Many thanks

[lesleys]

Have sent a PM

[Belinda1986]

I'm researching Cecelia Sarah Verrier. She's my gr grandmother, born 25 Sept 1854 Paulton Somerset. Her father is Joseph George Verrier and on her birth cert his occupation is medical botanist. I think I've located her parents marriage cert on 15 February 1847 when Joseph George married Sarah Chivers. If I've located the correct person, his occupation then is coal miner !! On GenForum I've noticed that Kathleen Burgar posted him as a gp, New York Diploma according to 1871 England Census. I wonder could he have studied his new profession once he married, changing from coal miner to medical botanist by the time Cecelia Sarah Verrier was born. I could be clutching at non existent straws........? By the way I am a new chum to this b-g website but it is proving a gem already. Thank you :-)

Hi,

My name is Belinda I believe Cecelia Verrier was my paternal Great-Great Grandmother. I am only beginning to work through my family tree off old notes so any help or assistance from those also researching this part of the family would be appreciated. I have information about her descendants but not much about her ancestors. It appears SusanS we are distant relatives by this link! Will be interested to see if there is that connection back to France made as I have french relatives on my mothers side as well. My mother was a DeLabertauche but don't know much at all about their history.

Thanks in advance,
Belinda

[PeteReg]

Joseph Hall was my paternal great grandfather. From information passed down through the generations, it is understood that the original Verrier name was de Verriere who were aristocrats from France who migrated to England, either before or during the French Revolution. As a means of assimilating into society, they dropped the de and the last e from the name to become Verrier. There is supposedly a chateau somewhere in France that they left in their haste to get to England.

I have a copy of a Marriage Certificate wherein the father is recorded as Joseph George Verrier, Medical Botanist and Dentist.