Who was Augustin ?

[lesleys]

In his will (proved Nov 1853) my 3xgt grandfather William Wallis (Ironmonger of Hart St) left the majority of his estate to My Gt Gt Grandmother and her two sons. However the very first bequest was "all that my leasehold messuage 4 West Row Kensal New Town" to Augustin Dether (or Dethur) Confectioner now living at 30 Edward St Portman Square, paying £60 to Messrs Spering of Curry near Taunton....for her own absolute use and benefit"

In 1851 30 Edward St was Occupied by Mr G Daw (b 1801 Stoke Somerset), confectioner, his wife and daughter and Louis Dethur (nephew) b abt 1826 France South.
HO107; Piece: 1488; Folio: 696; Page: 40;

The only Augustin Dether I can find is age 23 also b France working as a corset maker's assistant and living with her employers
HO107; Piece: 1475; Folio: 637; Page: 8;


I cannot find any trace of her in 1861 although Louis appears to have married and by 1871 is an unemployed cook who dies not long after

Can any of the super sleuths out there find out anything I have missed, what was her connection to William Wallis and George Daw, who were Messrs Spering of Curry and why were they involved ?
I have a theory but it is pure speculation. So over to anyone who can help

[Mutley]

I don't have a subscription to access the full details but there are two mentioned emigrating.
Canadian Passenger Lists 1865 - 1935
Galveston, Texas Passenger Lists 1896 - 1948

and maybe her in the 1870 US Census, born about 1821

I cannot see a marriage for her in the UK.

Do you know Mrs. Daw's maiden name?

Sorry, not much help really.

[pottoka]

I looked at Louis on the 1871 Census (I couldn't find him in 1861) and saw that his birthplace was narrowed down to Bordeaux. I think his surname is probably Dethier, rather than Dether/Dethur.

The BMD records for Bordeaux are on-line, so I looked the names up in the ten-year indexes, but unfortunately couldn't find either of them. If they were born in one of the smaller towns or villages around Bordeaux, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Maybe one of the records Mutley has mentioned might give a more precise location of birth, unless Louis did in 1861, always presuming that they were born in the same place.

As a female, Augustin's name would be Augustine. Augustin is the male equivalent.

[Mutley]

As a female, Augustin's name would be Augustine. Augustin is the male equivalent.

That's what I thought until I started looking. I put into A*try Augustin born 1828 in France and there were as many females as males.

[pottoka]

And you're going to take A*y's word over mine?

When the enumerators could spell Frances, Francis and vice versa, and they had x variations of any name: Elizabeth, Elisabeth, Elizbth, etc.

And then there's the problem of the transcribers, who might have missed off an 'e' if it wasn't too clear.

[Thomasin]

Cheer up, Pottoka, although it looks like a man's name, the will says '....for her own absolute use and benefit'.

Thomasin

[lesleys]

Thanks for your help so far - I realised that her name needed the female version.
No Mutley, I haven't got Hannah's maiden name. Haslington Cheshire (not Checker - another A**y wonderful transcription) records are not online and I have no idea where she and George Daw would have been married.
I did discover that there was a well known Spearing family in Curry which included a cooper and land surveyors, do I guess William had contacts through his business.
I realise that the term 'nephew' need not imply a blood relation - I found one reference where a family nurse called the children she looked after her grandchildren.
Pottoka - I did look at the Dethier family who were living in the Hanover Sq. area but I seem to remember they came from a different part of France or Belgium.
Just to add an extra ingredient to the puzzle I have no idea why William moved from Cornwall to London or who he married. I have a possible baptism for his son William George but nothing for his daughter Maria.
I shall keep searching

[Mutley]

No Mutley, I haven't got Hannah's maiden name.

I just wondered if Louis and Augustin/e were brother and sister and they actually were the niece and nephew, could they have been Mrs Daw's not Mr. Daws relatives? Though, that does not actually help you much.

I also looked on the London 1851 Post Office Directory and cannot find Edward St. 30 Portman Square has a Lord Leigh and very titled neighbours. I could not find 4 West Row, Kensal New Town either.

Sorry, I have not helped you much at all.

[pottoka]

I looked for Louis on later Censuses as, like Mutley, I thought that he and Augustine (defiantly!) were brother and sister. I was thinking that if you could find a place of birth for them, it might be possible to get her birth records.

What is your theory? An illegitimate daughter?

[lesleys]

I just found a possible marriage for George Daw and Hannah in Pallots:
Geo Daw & Hannh. Shaw 1826, M'bone Christchurch - seems likely as they were living in Marylebone in 1841. IGI has lots of possible Hannah Shaws in Cheshire around the right date.
1861 census is proving tricky -Still no sign of Louis and I cant find his marriage to Elizabeth. I cant even find Augustine's employers Guillaum & Elizabeth Vial, although there is a death in 1861 which could be him so she could be anywhere!
I probably need to hope someone with full sub can reads this and can check the US/Canada possibilities for Augustine.
If she were William's daughter he would have to have been in France in the 1820s but his children (that I know of) were born in London in 1818 and 1823. I suspect She came to London about 1848 when there was a lot of unrest and unemployment in France. He was 70 when he died so it is unlikely, tho' by no means impossible, that she was his mistress. Maybe he just had a sweet tooth!