Hi Richard
That explains it then. Jean Morin who wed in 1728 was NOT the Jean Morin baptised in 1713. This must mean that if Jean kept saying he was from France, then he must have been and was an uncle or cousin of the 1713 born one. It could have been coincidence but with such a rare name of Morin, it looks like they are all related.
I did find a Doctors Commons for Jean in 1750 saying he died intestate and had £20. His daughters Elizabeth and Susan are mentioned. A Jean Morin was buried in Bethnal Green in 1750.
Ben
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09-07-2009, 5:43 PM #11
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09-07-2009, 5:49 PM #12RichardE79Guest
Well I would say Ben, yes definently the Jean made a full member in 1717 is a different one to the child born 1713. There are two. Relatives? Perhaps.
It is just about possible either of the two was the groom for the marriage still, but I'd say the evidence certainly points against it being the 15 year old. The other was likely born say 1696/7 France, recieved as a full member in 1717 aged 21, so would be what..32 at time of the marriage. Slightly late, but only slightly, still certainly not a terribly unusual age for a man to get married in the Huguenot community at all, and certainly FAR more usual than 15. He may have been made a full member earlier 16 to 18 even, which would make hims mid to late twenties at time of marriage if so.
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09-07-2009, 6:31 PM #13RichardE79Guest
Ben
There is Jean Morin, born around the right time to be recieved in 1717 as a Full member of the Threadneedle Street Church.
1697
MORIN. 26 Nov. Jean, f. de Francois Morin et de Gabrielle Breguere, de Nismes ; pr. par lesd. pere et mere, parrain et marraine. Ne le 16e. J. Louis Mallide, min. (sig. Maurin)
Could that be him. (La Patente, Baptism)
Could not see a Jean Morin though on the Tesmoignage list in 1717, I see Paul says he actually took Reconnaisance that year. That suggests to me a possible new arrival from France.
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09-07-2009, 6:45 PM #14
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Hi Richard
I am sure he was reconnaisanced in 1717.
If that 1697 Jean Morin is mine, that means he was born in London yet his childrens baptisms say he was from Moulleron in France.
Ben
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09-07-2009, 6:45 PM #15RichardE79Guest
Ok, not to worry think I'm with you both now
"MORIN, Jean; de Mouilleron en Poitou ... ... ... ... 25 Jan., 1717."
I got confused as I thought we were talking Threadneedle Street, but I see he actuallly took Reconnaisance that year at La Patente, then went on to baptise his children there.
Again children were not considered responsible, so would not need to abjure or make reconnaisannce, at least to my knowledee, so it would not be the four year old Jean Morin in any case.
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09-07-2009, 6:49 PM #16
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Hi Richard
Does that mean that Jean was born in France?
Ben
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09-07-2009, 7:18 PM #17RichardE79Guest
Ben
Just been familiarising myself with the baptisms too to try and come up to speed with you both. Yes from what I can see he is born there, it is down as his origin on all the baptisms isn't it, very consistant, they wouldn't put it if he was born in London, and the reconnaisance seems to back that up. If you'd gone to mass or abjured, even under duress in France, the first thing you'd want to do is make reconnaisance as soon as possible after arriving in England, and in fact you wernt techinically allowed to be a member of the church until you'd done this.
I agree with you looking at the baptisms there does seem to be some connection between him and the pre existing Morins using the church Samuel and Marie. Their place of origin are quite near too...perhaps Samuel and Jean were cousins? I also noticed the only other Reconnaisances that give Moulleron are to the David family
DAVID, Gabriel, garson; de Mouilleron en Bas Poitou ...6 Dec 1713
DAVID, Louis, age de 21 ans; de Mouilleron en Poitoux...7 March 1714
DAVID, Mathurin; orig. de Moulleron en Poitou 22 Oct 1727
DAVID, Jean; de Mouilleron en Bas Poitou 4 July 1731
A Jeanne David was godmother to Jean Morins daughter Jeanne. Not sure if that is of any significance or not.
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09-07-2009, 7:24 PM #18
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Hi Richard
La Leur. It does look like Jean Morin was French. In the 1750 Doctors Commons it says that he was of Cock Lane, Bethnal Green. There is a Jean Morin burial in 1750 in Bethnal Green but it doesnt give his age. At present I have no proof of his age but I estimate he was born about 1695.
Those David's look promising. I wonder if I could now turn to the PRs for Mouilleron En Bas Poitou to see if Jean was baptised there?
Ben
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09-07-2009, 7:38 PM #19RichardE79Guest
That's a coincidence Ben our ancestors were neighbours. My 7 x great grandfather, Thomas Howard I have his baptism
1745, : baptised at St Leonard, Shoreditch son of “Thomas & Catherine Howard of Cock Lane”
He was a silk weaver, not Huguenot himself, but he married a good French girl Susannah Ledoux and they were still in Cock Lane when my 6x great gran was born 1768, so he must have been living there at time of your Jean Morin.
Anyway I digress....
The parish records in France may be worth going down. Of course the Huguenot churches were all 'officially' closed down in the 1680's, so no protestant baptisms in theory survive..but, one of the laws Louis put through made it a legal requirement protestants have their children baptised in Catholic church and given Catholic education, if they did not the children could be taken from them. How many protestants followed this I don't know, but certainly my latest Huguenot ancestor who was born 1750, was baptised in the Catholic Church, though the vicar has written parents of the RPR (Religion Pretendue Reformee), so the vicar clearly new they were protestants...bizarre really when you think of it. Therefore you may find your Morins in the Catholic registers despite their religion.
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09-07-2009, 7:40 PM #20
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Hi Richard
In 1815 my Auber relatives also lived at Cock Lane for a while.
I think the Huguenots started coming to England in 1685 but they didnt all come at once. I think for several decades they flocked to London, including Jean Morin. he must have moved to London in about 1715.
Ben
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