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  1. #1
    Frank
    Guest

    Default Walton/Beck/Jones/Smith/Troth

    Hello my name is Frank, I have been retired now for some time, and my hobbies include Family History, my late wife started the research off and made me promise to continue, and I always do as I`m told.My other interests are D.I.Y Fish Keeping, and I`m also in the process of transferring my extensive collection of music Cassettes and records onto C.D.

    I have been researching my family history now for four years, and have come up against the inevitable well and truly brick wall, on two fronts and can get no where at all. My family surname is Walton and evertime I locate an ancestor where we originated from changes. My Gt. Gt. Gt. Grandad was James Walton born c. 1797 at Marton Lancashire. I have struggled there as I do not really know whether it was Marton Fylde, Lancs. of Marton near to Lindale on the Cumbrian boundary. I do that he married a Mary Beck, born 1803 at Bolton le Sands and they married there in 1825. So I thought he must have been born near to Cumberland, but when he died it was in Thornton, Fleetwood, Fylde, where he had retired to.

    I really need to know James`s parents and siblings before I can progress, and I`m not having too much luck.

    My other sticking point I`ve been trying for two and a half years and cannot get anywhere. My Grandma was born Ethel Minnie Smith, in 1893 in West Brom. She was illigitimate and her mother was Isabel Troth then changed why I do not know to Smith. They finally came to reside in Pudsey, West Riding Yorkshire. They lived with Isabel`s mother Eleanor Troth, then Jones, then Smith, and her sister Emma Jones, then Smith at 77, Bradford Road, Pudsey, a little shop.Isabel also had a brother Jeremiah and and another sister Agnes. Both Agnes and Isabel stated that they were born in Pudsey, but I cannot find any record. Emma the elder sister born 1854 in Hindley, Wigan, was said to have been a Methodist Lay Preacher. I cannot find any trace of her death. I have a will that she made in 1918 so she was alive then this family is so complicated I just cannot get anywhere. I really would appreciate any help whatsoever.

    Thank you for taking the time to read my problems. Kind regards to all

    Frank.

  2. #2
    bumblebee
    Guest

    Default

    What a confusing family, Ann Ellen and Thomas Jones in 1861 with son Jeremiah, Troth in 1881, and Smith in 1891 as you say not an easy family to follow.

    Bumblebee

    1861 - Piece: 3022; Folio: 93; Page: 13;

    1881 - Piece: 4484; Folio: 91; Page: 13

    1891 - Piece: 3658; Folio 14; Page 21

  3. #3
    silvery
    Guest

    Default

    Is Isabel Troth the name on the birth certificate of Ethel Minnie Smith born Sept 1893 West Bromwich vol 6b page 859

    What names are we looking for on the 1901 census?

    .

  4. #4
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank
    James Walton born c. 1797 at Marton Lancashire. I have struggled there as I do not really know whether it was Marton Fylde, Lancs. of Marton near to Lindale on the Cumbrian boundary. I do that he married a Mary Beck, born 1803 at Bolton le Sands and they married there in 1825.
    When they married, is he simply recorded as 'otp' or does it show a different parish of residence?

    Any obvious relatives who were witnesses?

    When someone moves from a parish, relatives often stay behind. Have you tried searching the 1841 census to see if there are any WALTONs in either parish, or nearby? It might point you towards the right parish register.

    Conversley, did any WALTONs move away from the home parish with him? If so, do they have their birthplace recorded any more precisely?

    Have you tried both baptismal registers to see if there are any James WALTONs who were baptised at this time in either parish?

    Does he have any siblings or elder relatives staying with him in any census returns?

  5. #5
    bumblebee
    Guest

    Default

    Just been puzzling over your troth family some more - I wonder if Eleanor/Anna Helen called herself Smith as her mother married a Smith.

    Through the census she consistently says she was born in Henley in Arden. On the 1851 census there is a Ann Helen Price Troth born Henley in Arden, a servant. Piece: 2074; Folio: 657; Page: 2

    On the 1841 census there is a an Eleanor Troth with a family of Smiths, John and Hannah. Wootton Wawen; Folio: 31; Page: 18; Line: 23;

    The IGI has a baptism for an Anne Ellen Price Troth, Henley-Abode, 18th Jan 1836, Chapel of Henley in Arden, mother Hannah Troth father unknown, and a marriage for a Hannah Troth and a John Smith, 3oth October 1837, St Martin Birmingham.

    Bumblebee

  6. #6
    Frank
    Guest

    Default James Walton,born 1937 Marton, Lancashire.

    Thanks very much for your reply, I am still green at this research. The information that I received about James Walton`s marriage to Mary Beck, was from a fellow researcher, in the form of an E. mail. and just says that they were married at Bolton le Sands on18 July, 1825. From bishops transcripts 1676 - 1889. That is all I know, so I do not know if there were any relatives as witnesses.

    I have checked census`s 1841 re other Waltons in both parishes and that comes up with numerous names of Walton, but nothing that I can see to connect them with James.

    I first picked him up in the 1841 census when he was already married and had several children, so I do not when he moved away from the home parish. likewise there is no trace of any parents or siblings.

    I am unable to get out easily these days and so I must say that I have been unable to to check parish registers.

    Thanks again Geoffers.

    Likewise I am new to this web site is this the correct way to answer everybodies assistance.

    Regards Frank.

  7. #7
    Frank
    Guest

    Default Ann Helen Price Troth or Smith.

    Thanks Bumble bee,

    I have not yet checked it through, but I think that you may have found the link I was looking for re her birth. If you will bear with me I will try and explain what I already know, but I warn it`s long.

    I first picked up on Eleanor Troth, b. c. 1837 at Henley in Arden, Warks. She was living with a Smith family in Henley in Arden. I did not know why she should be there. No trace of any parents. I traced her again in 1851 at Wolverton under the name Anna Ellen Froth same d.o.b. employed as a servant. I understand that the surname Froth could be a clerical error.

    1861 census shows her living in Hindley nr. Oldham, Lancs. She was shown asa the wife of Thomas Jones bo. 1827 at Ashburton, Herts. She was shown as his wife and ahd two children Jeremiah Jones, b. 1860 at Bridgenorth, Salop., and daughter Emma Jones born 1855 at Hindley. I obtained the birth cert. for Emma and that shows Ann Helen maiden name as Ann Ellen Price. That is the last time I have managed to locate Emma and she is the one I want to trace. According to my family Emma was Smith, and I have her will that shows she was alive in 1918 to sign the will. She I have been told was a Methodist Lay Preacher, but how true that is I do not know. She nevers shows up again, I have acquiried quiet a nice collection of death certs. for Emma but not the right one.

    That was all for Emma. I cannot find anyone in the 1871 census it is as though they have all disapeared. 1881 census Ann Ellen Troth shows up in Pudsey, W.R. Yorks.She is shown as being unmarried and has three children with her, Jeremiah Troth, Isabel Troth and Agnes Troth. Jeremiah is shown as being born in Bridgenorth, but Isabel b. 1869 and Agnes b. 1872 are shown to have been born in Pudsey. No sign of Emma or Thomas Jones.

    1891 Ann Hele Smith as she is calling herself is down as being a widow. Her three children Jeremiah, Isabel and Agnes are also using the suname Smith.

    1901 census shows Ellen A. Smith single person, living with her is Ethel Minnie Smith, my Grandma.

    I though that was to be it but. Jeremiah got married to a Ruth Winn in 1890 and his marriage cert shows his father to John Smith, mechanic by
    trade. Isabel married John Heaton in 1895 and her marriage cert shows her father to be John Smith deceased. Agnes married in 1895 also and her father was John Smith deceased.

    Ann Ellen Smith died in 1912 and the death cert shows her to be the widow of Thomas Smith, foundary worker. And I have told a lie, because Emma is shown on the death certificate as being present at death.

    That is

  8. #8
    Frank
    Guest

    Default Ann Helen Price Troth or Smith.

    Thanks Bumble bee, Silvery

    I have not yet checked it through, but I think that you may have found the link I was looking for re her birth. If you will bear with me I will try and explain what I already know, but I warn it`s long.

    I first picked up on Eleanor Troth, b. c. 1837 at Henley in Arden, Warks. She was living with a Smith family in Henley in Arden. I did not know why she should be there. No trace of any parents. I traced her again in 1851 at Wolverton under the name Anna Ellen Froth same d.o.b. employed as a servant. I understand that the surname Froth could be a clerical error.

    1861 census shows her living in Hindley nr. Oldham, Lancs. She was shown asa the wife of Thomas Jones bo. 1827 at Ashburton, Herts. She was shown as his wife and ahd two children Jeremiah Jones, b. 1860 at Bridgenorth, Salop., and daughter Emma Jones born 1855 at Hindley. I obtained the birth cert. for Emma and that shows Ann Helen maiden name as Ann Ellen Price. That is the last time I have managed to locate Emma and she is the one I want to trace. According to my family Emma was Smith, and I have her will that shows she was alive in 1918 to sign the will. She I have been told was a Methodist Lay Preacher, but how true that is I do not know. She nevers shows up again, I have acquiried quiet a nice collection of death certs. for Emma but not the right one.

    That was all for Emma. I cannot find anyone in the 1871 census it is as though they have all disapeared. 1881 census Ann Ellen Troth shows up in Pudsey, W.R. Yorks.She is shown as being unmarried and has three children with her, Jeremiah Troth, Isabel Troth and Agnes Troth. Jeremiah is shown as being born in Bridgenorth, but Isabel b. 1869 and Agnes b. 1872 are shown to have been born in Pudsey. No sign of Emma or Thomas Jones.

    1891 Ann Hele Smith as she is calling herself is down as being a widow. Her three children Jeremiah, Isabel and Agnes are also using the suname Smith.

    1901 census shows Ellen A. Smith single person, living with her is Ethel Minnie Smith, my Grandma.

    I though that was to be it but. Jeremiah got married to a Ruth Winn in 1890 and his marriage cert shows his father to John Smith, mechanic by
    trade. Isabel married John Heaton in 1895 and her marriage cert shows her father to be John Smith deceased. Agnes married in 1895 also and her father was John Smith deceased.

    Ann Ellen Smith died in 1912 and the death cert shows her to be the widow of Thomas Smith, foundary worker. And I have told a lie as Emma is shown on the death cert as being present at death.

    Complicated isn`t it. What I want is Isabel and Agnes`s birth cert.and Emma`s Death cert, and where she has been all the years.

    Thanks for being patient with me, and I would be gratefulfor any help at all.
    Kind Regards, Frank.

    -

  9. #9
    bumblebee
    Guest

    Default

    Frank

    Just absorbing all the above, I had followed the family on the census returns and like you could not find anyone on the 1871. Information from the certificates is interesting.

    Will have another look around while I eat my Easter Eggs (I wish b....y diet)

    Bumblebee

  10. #10
    bumblebee
    Guest

    Default

    Frank

    I have had a look around and I am going to mention this census I found in 1871, I have not fully checked out the family to see if they appear as a family unit on other census, but several things caught my eye. The childrens names and birth dates and the fact that the family are in Pudsey, Primrose Hill. The same street address they are living at on the 1881 census. Also in 1861 they are living in Oldham with Mr Jones.

    1871 census, Piece: 4509; Folio: 58; Page: 21

    Family are under the name of Livesey.

    Pudsey, Primrose Hill.

    Ellen 36 Married
    Emma 16
    Isabel 2
    Jeremiah 11
    John 46 Married

    It says all born Lancashire Oldham, apart from Isabelle and that says Stanningley, Yorkshire.

    There are quite a few similarities with your family.

    Bumblebee

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