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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimsey View Post
    the 1918 US Draft Registration document for Arthur Tyson Soper says he was manager of "Moscow Copper Rolling Mills & Cable Works Company" of Moscow. (apologies if you already knew that)
    that can be seen for free on FamilySearch along with a 1920 census return for Greenwich, Fairfield, CT with Arthur, wife and daughter at the very top of the page

  2. #12
    elizabethjones1
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    gosh I'm bowled over so much help thank you so much !

  3. #13
    elizabethjones1
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    I can't thank you enough so thrilled with these latest wads of info ! I need some time to digest and cross ref. my info which is fairly extensive. What is you connection ? Giles Ching Soper was my GG Grandfather I'm a bit in dark about 2 nd marriage to Ann Otten lots to piece together still will speak soon liz [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by g_soper View Post
    That's news to me, thanks wimsey; His elder brother moved from the Basingstoke workhouse age 5, to a being a wealthy Minnesota car-racing doctor.

    & I now can google a photo of Arthur Tyson Soper (1885-1927); with presumably more family details behind ancestry's paywall; Wonder if he ever called himself Tyson? (to help the link, Arthur T's grfather & uncle were gunmakers, so before the age of the confiscated nail-file, Giles might travel tooled-up? & his son globe-trot passportless, on an alias?)

    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...h=Web+Property

    ----------

    Elizabeth; you might like to email Leeds University & see if a student has yet scanned a 46 page book in their Russian Archive, by Giles's youngest dau; Bessie Emily Brand (née Soper) (1887-1982) "a member of British community in pre-revolutionary Russia; 'Bessie Brand's Memoir of Russia, 1956', contains family tree, photos of Brand & Soper families & of Russian cities". It might be fascinating.

  4. #14
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    on the marriage registration document for Giles Ching Soper and Emma Elford, 1st April 1850, St James Piccadilly, his profession is given as "bell hanger". The Russians like their bells of course.

  5. #15
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    Default Soper and Ogle

    I'm new, so please excuse any errors. I have a photo of Teddy Soper (attached) that says the following on the back:
    Teddy Soper
    Brother to:
    Arthur Soper
    Mary Soper
    Bessie Soper
    Father: Giles Ching Soper
    Mother: Anne Otten Soper

    The story I was told follows. My grandmother and her family were British civil servants and household servants to the Czar. My grandmother (Mary Ogle) was a nanny and her sister was one of Anastasia's caretakers. I was told that my grandmother had an affair with Teddy Soper and may have been married to him briefly. They had two sons, Edward and Andrew H. Yes, my grandmother was "free with her favors," as you will see below. The revolution came along and 27 members of the family began to walk out of Russia and back to England. My mother's uncle (George Webb, MD) and his wife (Sasha, a White Russian) took the train to Siberia, moving on to Shanghai, then Hawaii and finally to NYC. My mother's family had a pact that those who could not keep up would be left behind. My grandmother was one of the first to fall behind in Poland. Others settled in Germany and France, but the bulk of the family got back to England. My grandmother took a job as a Shabbos Goy and nanny for an Orthodox Jewish family in Poland. She became pregnant by the head of the household and was sent on her way with enough money to get back to England. She chose to board a ship in France and travel to NYC where my mother, Alice Catherine Ogle was born in 1918. The US Census in 1930 shows the four of them living at 18 Linden Ave in Darien, CT where my grandmother worked as a housekeeper. My mother later lived with in foster care and then with her Uncle Dr. George Webb and worked as a nurse in NYC where she met my father and then they moved to eastern CT. My mother's brothers moved to Southern California where they worked in the movie and restaurant businesses. I only met them once for about 20 minutes. In some documents I have found Soper is spelled Sopher even when its clear they refer to the same person.
    Comments, corrections and additions from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

  6. #16
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    Your grandmother 'Mary Ogle' is the 'Mary Soper' on the back of Ted's picture. She was his sister, born 12 September 1882 in St Petersburg to Giles Ching Soper and Ann Otten. Possibly you need to take another look at the family narrative.

    Edward was born and baptised in what was by then Petrograd in 1909, and Mary Ann's name is the only one on the register. In the 1930 census, she stated she was first married in 1904 at 22, and Edward said at the same time that his father was from Siberia. Records are sparse, it was a time of massive disruption. The only solid fact is that in 1916, Mary Ann left Edward in Finland - they may have been living there, her Kerby cousins had a summer home there - and took ship at Bergen, Norway, for New York, describing herself as a nurse. Which is convincing. There was a war on.

    In New York, she met Henry Ogle, got pregnant, got married and had two children in quick succession. It was ten years before she was able to get the money together to pay for Edward to come to America, and it was 1929 before he arrived. This was the first time he had met his half-siblings, and 13 years since he had seen his mother. And then Mary died in 1935, only 5 years later, which is so sad.

  7. #17
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    Default Thank you

    I can trace my father's family with great precision back to William Gager the English playwright in the 1500's, but my mother's family history is hard to follow. I was already pretty sure that Giles Ching Soper was Mary Soper's father, making him my great-grandfather. My mother told us all that her father was a Polish man her mother worked for briefly while traveling to America with her two older brothers. I was never told anything about a Henry Ogle, but now I want to find that part of my family. Do you have any information I could use to be sure I am looking for the right Henry Ogle. Feel free to use my personal email to contact me directly: georgeATgagerDOTnet.
    Last edited by christanel; 27-05-2018 at 5:28 AM. Reason: email address disguised to deter spam.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinarose View Post
    Your grandmother 'Mary Ogle' is the 'Mary Soper' on the back of Ted's picture. She was his sister, b.12 Sept 1882 St Petersburg to Giles Ching Soper & Ann Otten.

    Edward was born and baptised in what was by then Petrograd in 1909, and Mary Ann's name is the only one on the register
    Hi, I'd be interested, how Mary Soper's Kerby cousins were linked to the Soper family

    & just to clarify, was Mary Ann Soper on that register as his mother or sister? & was it Edward Soper (or Sopher?)

    thanks

  9. #19

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    Hi Meneth, fascinating stories from a complex genealogy

    I may have spotted your grandmother with her brother on holiday in Wales in 1903;

    A T Soper of St Petersburg, Russia, was holidaying at 44 Crescent Rd, Rhyl (also CAC Parnell of New York); from holiday-maker directory; Rhyl Record 29 Aug 1903 https://newspapers.library.wales/view...639964/3/soper. Also the next week; Miss Otten, Master & Miss Soper & Master Parnell all of St Petersburg [& Mr & Mrs Roberts & family, Mrs & Miss Slack of L'pool] at 44 Crescent Rd; from 'Visitors' Chronicle for Colwyn Bay' 5, 11 & 12 Sep 1903 https://newspapers.library.wales/view...27528/26/soper & https://newspapers.library.wales/view...639985/4/soper

    [seems Arthur Tyson Soper 18 & a sister; either Mary 19 or Bessie 16; with an unm relation of their mother? (a sister? a supervising adult?); Looks like a 4 guest-room terrace; No Parnell/St.P record vis; (a Miss Otten was at a 1901 Llandudno ball, but not on holiday, as in Jan?; so possibly coincidence? https://newspapers.library.wales/view...20/3652526/44/)

    So perhaps the family had NY connections, before Mary left Russia/Finland in WW1? Wonder if you or Elizabeth can connect the Parnell family of NY & St Petersburg to Sopers?

    Any sign when, or where your neat photo was taken, or when titled? (perhaps at his arrival in NY 1929? age abt.20?)

    The 'Sopher' spelling of Edward Soper is interesting, if as you say, it was used in documents other than just one census. I've only seen that spelling used in jewish families, so might it hint at some truth within the passed-down family folk tales? Were the Ogles jewish?

    (out of interest, what relationship was your mother's uncle Dr.Webb to your grandmother Mary Soper?)

  10. #20
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    Thank you for your help. I obviously have a lot of work to do in order to get it all straight. My mother was either trying to cover things up or just didn't know what the truth was. It now falls on me to do some serious research.
    All I know about George Webb was that my mother referred to him as her uncle. He was born in England and educated as a physician. He moved to Russia and married a White Russian wife named Sasha. He was given a medal by the Czar which I inherited and keep on my keychain until I lost it in a parking lot. He came to the US following the start of the Russian Revolution going in the opposite direction from the rest of the family. Sasha supposedly sewed the family's jewels into the hem of her dress and they took the train out though Siberia and made their way to Shanghai where he practised for a while. He then traveled to Hawaii where he worked on plantations until moving to New York and becoming a surgeon of some renown. When my grandmother died my mother found herself being abused in a type of foster care and "uncle George" rescued her. He helped my mother enter nursing school and she later completed college while working at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City where George Webb lived until he retired to a small cottage in upstate New York where he was buried. He died just before I was born in 1947 and I was named in his honor. I may have his photo someplace, but I know little else. However, it was made clear that he was an uncle from my grandmother's side of the family.
    My mother's birth certificate lists her birth name as Ogle, but it appears that my grandmother married Henry Ogle well after my mother was born and then disappeared.
    Again, thank you for the leads, I'll let you know if I find more. Are we in any way related?

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