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  1. #11
    Astoria
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    You may already have this information, Durham records online list 99 Parish records

  2. #12
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    One of the witnesses you speak of - Mary Parish, who married Thomas Collins, was the sister of my 4 x great grandfather Thomas Parish. So we are getting closer! I can't find a John who married Ann Mary though. Do they feature on the census at all?

    Astoria, a number of my Parish line headed from Chirk to Durham, including my direct line, which left and ended up in Yorkshire. All chasing that black stuff!

  3. #13
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    My Parish is Caroline (sister of Christine R's James) who married Anderson Grant in Caldcote Cam Eng in 1852. They emigrated to South Australia in 1853.
    Marienne

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    Hi Bunty

    I can't find John and Mary with any real certainty in the census. In the 1841 there is a John in Chirk, born c. 1799/1800, who is married to Elizabeth (could be second wife) - but he would have to have married Mary at 14 years old, which seems unlikely.

    In the 1851 there is John (born c.1796) and Mary (born c. 1791) living in Bagillt, which looks much more hopeful, but I can't be sure. His occupation is unreadable but doesn't look anything like "collier" (as given on marriage cert), and his birthplace is given as "Wacu, Denbighshire" - no idea on this, but possibly Wales??

    I hoped that witness Mary Parish would turn out to be John's sister, but it doesn't look as if it is going to be that easy!

    All the best
    RosemH

  5. #15
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    John Parish, who married Elizabeth Roberts, is indeed Mary's brother.

    I have looked in my transcripts of St Mary's parish registers of Chirk. I don't have John's marriage as the transcripts I have don't go out that far. If you are sure your John came from Chirk, the only John who could fit your John is my John - born 5 April 1799, baptised 12 May 1799, parents John and Anne Parish of Brynkinnalt (near the mine of the same name, in Chirk). There are no other Johns baptised in Chirk for 20 years prior.

    I can see the baptisms of the two girls you referred to. Eliza was baptised 24Dec 1815, parents John and Mary living in Wharfe. Pamela was baptised 11 Oct 1818, parents John and Mary of Chirk. There are no further children that I can see. This in itself I find unusual. It is remotely possible that John remarried Elizabeth and had more children. Perhaps Mary died between 1818 and 1821 or so, as the John I have remarried in 1822 to Elizabeth. It is young to be married though - it would mean John would only have been 15 at the time he married Mary. Not sure if that would have happened.

    Anyway, I am speculating a lot! If your John was my John I could tell you a lot more about his parents and their parents.

  6. #16
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    I just had a thought, perhaps they married in Chirk because Mary was from the area. Maybe John was not from Chirk at all, but was there because of his wife. Wacu doesn't sound like a place in Wales. What about Waen? Can you give me the census reference and I will have a look at John and Mary and see if I can decipher it.

  7. #17
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    John's marriage record says "John Parish, Collier of this Parish and Ann Mary Jones, spinster of the Parish of Whittington" - but he could, as you suggest, not have been born in Chirk at all.

    I'm not sure what census reference you need to look it up, but the reference on the page is H.O. 107 2500 and the page number is 36 and 569. Sorry to be so vague, I haven't used census references before, let me know if you need something else. On a further examination, your suggestion of Waen looks hopeful. I'm going into the records office next week and (once I find out whereabouts Waen is in Denbighshire!), I can check those records. Mary's birthplace is given as Ruabon, which again looks hopeful as regards John being in the locality for her.

  8. #18
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    Thanks, that reference was fine . I just took a look at the record then. It looks like it could be Waen rather than Wacu and it has been mistranscribed (no surprises there!). I think perhaps these Parishes may be related more distantly than immediate to mine. I recall in my family history travels that one of my Parishes earlier on (earlier than your John) headed north to Bagillt. In fact there was quite a population of Parishes in Flintshire at one stage. I think your John may have married in Chirk (perhaps he was working in one of the mines at the time), with Chirk being quite close to Ruabon, where his wife was from. She may have been in service in Chirk at the time. As often happens, the groom ends up snaveling his wife (and family) back to his own stomping ground, hence their move north. All speculation of course and nothing solid to work with. I think the next port of call would be to explore the parishes around Waen and see if you can find your man on the registers for the area.

  9. #19
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    Thanks for all your help with this Bunty. Your suggestion of a whole section of the Parishes being in Flintshire is very helpful - in fact in the 1841 census (I think it was - haven't got my file with me) where Pamela Parrish is recently married to my ancestor George Edwards, there is a James Parrish living next door to them. I had been assuming Pamela's family was from Chirk because she was born there and her parents were married there, but it doesn't necessarily follow, of course, that John was born there too. I will now start looking at records of the Waen and Bagillt areas to see what I can turn up. Thanks again.

  10. #20
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    My ancestor Richard Roberts and his family are on the 1841 census at living in the township of Brynkniall, Chirk as a collier. He had 3 children Maria b1821, Richard b1826 and Thomas b1832 according to the census.

    However according to the parish records I have Maria was born in halton 20/6/1820, Richard in Greenlane 20/8/1926 (also a collier) and Thomas 1830 also born Halton. Their father was married to someone called Mary but I have no Idea what her maiden name was or when and where they married. She doesn't appear on the 1841 census either for Chirk. Maria married John Mates who was lodging with them at the time and also a collier at Chirk Parish Church in 1841. Her brorther Richard married someone called Martha in Chirk in 1850 and died in 1884. John mates died in 1865. Neither of them and their families appear to have moved from the area.

    I can see all the Parrish's in the Chirk Babtishs Parish Register (1813 - 1845). Thomas did move from the area to Wolverhampton and then to Durham with his wife where he started my leg of the family. I would love to hear from anyone that can share with me anything about this Roberts family and the Mates family.

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