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  1. #1
    jannic
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    Default France 1842 - 1848?

    Hi
    I wonder if anyone here can answer, or at least shed shome light on, why a labourer and his wife would be travelling to France for the birth of four of their children? There may be a distant connection with France somewhere as the family name is Novell but I haven't found it yet.

    The family as I have them are
    William Novell b1812 Farnham, Surrey
    Mary Ann Davis b1820 Long Ditton, Surrey
    Married Thames Ditton 25/6/1838

    Children
    William b1840 Bishopstoke, Hampshire
    James b1842 France
    Mary Ann b1844 France
    Henry b1846 France
    Eliza b 1847 France
    Sarah b 1848 Kingston, Surrey
    David b 1850 Kingston Surrey
    John b1852 Surbiton, Surrey
    Martha b1854 Surbiton, Surrey
    Owen b1857 Surbiton, Surrey
    Charles b1860 Hook, Surrey

    Any ideas welcome
    Thanks
    Jan

  2. #2
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    Was William in the army at any time?

    Do you have any indication as to the type of labourer he was or for whom he worked?

  3. #3
    jannic
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Geoffers
    I have William in all the census years
    1841 - Labourer
    1851 - Labourer Excavator
    1861 - Lab Garden
    1871 - Bricklayers Labourer

    There is no indication that he's working for a well to do family or the railways etc. which might have taken them abroad. Family legend is that the family fled France during one of the revolutions but there is no evidence for them being anything other than ordinary folk.

    Jan

  4. #4

    Default

    Hi Jan,
    A great many English families worked in France from 1818 onwards; from Nottingham and surrounding area there were hundreds of families, involved in the machine lace trade, who worked in Calais and other northern towns. The revolution of 1848 sent many of them home; this ties in with the dates you have. Have you found any actual place of birth, rather than just France? The French are putting records of BMDs and censuses on-line now. I f you have any other info, let me know, I may be able to help.
    Rosie

  5. #5
    jannic
    Guest

    Default

    Hi RosieW,

    I'm afraid I haven't got a lot further with this puzzle since I posted it. There is a small possibility that one of the children may have been born on Paris (as given on a census once) and also that their grandfather may have had links with the army (but that is based purely on a hunch from a parish register).

    The info about the second revolution ties in nicely with the family returning to England, I wonder if they still had links with friends or family in France and went out to work on the land? This may explain how a linked family sent an unmarried pregnant daughter to France for the birth! I suppose, like many family history puzzles, the answer will appear in a newly transcribed record and I'll be able to move on with the family again, but in the meantime I'm grateful for any help I am given.

    All the best
    Jan

  6. #6

    Default

    Hi Jan,
    I'm afraid the bad news is that there is no central database for France, you have to know the town or village where the person was born. I do not have the Novell family in my Calais database. The railways suggestion is a good one, because France was building at this time, but without an exact place of birth, no chance of finding them. I did have a look at various censuses on Ancestry to see if there was a clue there, but did not find anything. If you find such a clue, let me know at once, I can look them up, then tell you how to find the info yourself.
    Just one possible follow-up idea occurs to me - people often followed others who had emigrated previously. If you find anyone else from the family or from the same area as the family, they may give the parish where a child was born. If you are a member of the Surrey family history Society (just try an e-mail question, perhaps) they may know of other families who went to a specific area for a specific reason. I have found whole communities went from one English area to jobs in France, often highly specialised. William, as a labourer, doesn't give us a clue, but maybe the future career of one of the sons does?
    If you get any inkling, let me know.
    Best regards, Rosie

  7. #7

    Default

    Hi Jan
    I also have family who travelled to France in 1842, had 2 children then came back home and I cannot find any reason as to why. William Garbutt in 1841 was a brickmaker in Jarrow when he went to France with his family. He had 2 children born in 1842 and 1843 in France and then came home.
    In 1847 he was back and having more children.
    I was wondering if you ever found out why your family did the same.
    Regards Andrea

  8. #8
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    Oct 2004
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    Kent
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    16,792

    Default

    travelled to France in 1842, had 2 children then came back home and I cannot find any reason as to why.
    Message #4 above explains it. The end of the Napoleonic Wars and economic depression in Britain led thousands of British workers to take work in France where there was a skill shortage and where industrialisation was under way.

    There a paper "British Workers in France, 1815–1848" referenced several times online. I think you should be able to access it via your county library service.

  9. #9

    Default

    William's period in France, based on birth of "James 1842, France and Sarah 1848, Kingston" coincides with the building of the Paris - Rouen - Le Havre railway. The contractors were Brassey and Mackenzie.
    By May 1843, when the Paris-Rouen stage was completed, over 4,000 English excavators, masons, bricklayers, miners, carpenters, workmen of every kind had crossed the channel. The Rouen - Le Havre section was completed March 1847.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

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