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[Geoffers]

If you still cannot find the entry under GARSIDE, try searching for another name which appears at the top of the same page - The entry is very clear and even Anc***** should be able to index it. Search for John SHAW who is recorded as aged 69 in Rishworth. Your GARSIDE family appear in the bottom half of the same page.

Or if the site you use will let you, you could try searching on just the place name 'Rishworth' - for which you should get 1,708 hits

The reference given is that used by The National Archives. Basically, the 1841 and 1851 census are prefixed HO107 (this is the 'class' - HO stands for Home Office - the department responsible for administrering those censuses), it is followed by an oblique / stroke and then a number. The number relates to the area or district and is this is the 'piece' number.

In 1841 the reference should include another oblique stroke and then a one or two digit number for the sub-disctrict. There then comes the f (folio) and p (page number). I'm not sure if Anc***** will let you search using the full reference.

Does that help at all? Can you locate the entry, or is it still elusive? Let me know if still stuck and I'll try to think of something else.

[Geoffers]

Aha - I've just been to the dreaded Anc*** For the 1841 census search - under the name there is the facility to enter the full class/piece/book reference

Under the bit about personal information there is the word 'Census' and under that is written HO107.

In the field marked 'Piece' - enter 1303
In the field marked 'Book' - enter 17
In the field marked 'folio' - enter 35
In the field marked 'page' - enter 32

Now hit search.

You'll see several entries where the surname is interpreted as 'EPERSINE'
believe me it actually reads GARSIDE and these are the entries you want.

Any good?

[dgarside]

Success ! I have them !

Thank you Geoffers ! Not sure what they are doing in a 'Goathouse' but hopefully I will find out.

This is wonderful.

Dale

[Geoffers]

Phew!!!!! I don't think it helped (or helps) that the enumerator had problems with his spelling - look at the entry further down the same page where there is a 'scoolmaster' (sic) - or just above your GARSIDEs where Amelia BURLEY is an 'Inkeeper'.

Living by a pub and a school may actually help you locate the property on an old map such as those available at this site


In fact, you can find the area they lived fairly closely on the old map web-site. If you notice, John SHAW is living at Slithero (the modern maps record Shaw Lane - possibly named after him?), there's mention of Rishworth School and Goat House. All three are shown - with a little more work, you might pinpoint the precise house.

[Geoffers]

This seems to be a photo of the old Rishworth School

In fact the same site (click on 'search the archive) appears to have several photos and documents connected with Rishworth - maybe worth making a cuppa and having a browse?

This site mentions lots of local people in Calderdale including some GARSIDEs

[dgarside]

Wow, you are really good !

I'm reviewing the sites as we speak. Any suggestions on how I could locate Robert's parents ? He was born in Halifax. I'm assuming I will have to check church records ?
Or, possibly, as you said, obtain the birth certificate of one of the younger children, Robert Jr was born in 1838 and Joseph was born in 1841.

Dale

[Geoffers]

Any suggestions on how I could locate Robert's parents ? He was born in Halifax. I'm assuming I will have to check church records ? Or, possibly, as you said, obtain the birth certificate of one of the younger children, Robert Jr was born in 1838 and Joseph was born in 1841.

Okedoke - Joah's birth certificate should record:

Date and place born - in rural areas this is often just the name of a parish, but you might strike lucky and it also includes something like 'Goat House'

Name and gender of child

Father's name and surname - also his occupation

Mother's name and maiden name

Name and address of informant

When registered.

So, this will confirm for you that he was the son of Robert and Fann(e)y.

(If you fancy a challenge - Try searching freebmd to see if you can locate entries which might possibly relate to the birth of Robert. Try a search from Sept 1837 (the earliest date you can search from) to Dec 1840. You should get at least two possible matches; see if you can come up with any ways of working out which entry might refer to your Robert. I confess that I haven't tried to find the answer or if there is an obvious answer, but this is more about helping you to understand different ways of looking for information to help you work out search strategies for the future - please ask if you would just prefer a walk through of things I might try to solve this problem)

.......But I digress..........

Robert and Fanny appear to have been 40-45 in 1841 and to have had a son aged 20-25. So, the working assumption might be that they married around 1815-1820-ish. This is well before civil registration which began in 1837. So, you will need to refer to parish registers - the marriage should have taken place in the parish church (there are some exceptions but try the parish registers first to cover the most obvious).

You can try searching the IGI on the mormon web-site to see if you can locate when and wehre a marriage took place, but please do check with the original record. The IGI is not an accurate or complete record of parish registers.

Parish registers can often be viewed at mormon church (LDS) record centres, where you can hire copies on microfilm. The County Record Office for the area may be able to provide you with photocopies of entries - some record offices can provide copies of registers on fiche or film. Local Family History Societies can often be very helpful with either transcribed records (Which again need to be checked) or records of members who are researching the same family.

[Geoffers]

Next bit - follows on from last message, I've split it up rather than give you too big a block of text to take in at one go.

So, Robert and Fanny's marriage. Marriages before 1837 record less information. From 1754-1813 you should find in a register entry:

Name of bride and groom, parish of residence (this will often just be 'of this parish') and marital state.
Married by banns/licence - date - by whom and names of witnesses

It is noted if the bride/groom or witnesses made a mark rather than signing their name.

Sometimes witnesses are related to brode/groom.

So, parents' names are not necessarily recorded.

What you hope is that a family stayed in a parish for several generations, so that you can analyse all the entries - baptism, marriage and burials and so piece together who was related to whom - it's a bit like a jig-saw puzzle.

There are other sources of information that may help. I recommend going to a big library or bookshop and looking for a book on researching family history - something that you can pick up and browse through from time to time to help get things straight in your own mind. Of course, subtle hints to family and friends about what a good present a certain book would make for someone researching family history may be acted on in time next week - if you're lucky! I don't want to go into too much more at the moment for fear of causing an overload. Put the kettle on, lock yourself in a room with your computer and have a good browse through this and other messages on these forums and you should learn quite a lot.

Fare y'well tergerther

[dgarside]

Geoffers,

I ordered, and received, a publication from the 'Calderdale Family History Society', entitled 'Elland St. Mary's Marriages Dec 1815 to June 1822'

inside there is this entry

GARSIDE Robert OTP 06/11/1820 B ELL
Booth Frances OTP 809

Thanks to you, I now know that OTP is of the parrish, I assume that B is Bans, but I do not know what 809 is.....

The heading for B reads Type/
809 Reg

Anyway, I was able to ascertain that Robert and Fanney were married in the Elland St. Marys church, the question is, what else did they and thier family do there. I'm going to go back to the Calderdale website and see what other publications I can find.

You have been an immemse help, I was at a dead end.......this is all on my fathers side, my mother was a Linford and her father William Robert Yolding Linford was born in Wood Green,Middlesex. I found him in the census and his father Robert who was married to Elizabeth Saunders, unfortunately Robert and Elizabeth both died at an early age. Elizabeth Saunders is traceable back a couple of generations, but Robert Linford gets really strange, he first shows up in the 1881 census, when he is 19 and being raised by his Uncle James Linford. From the 1881 census we see that Robert was born in 1862 at Hornsey Rise Middlesex England, the next time we see him is in 1891 and he is now married to Elizabeth and living in Tottenham, Middlesex England. There is no mention of him prior to 1881, or at least there is none that I can find. I have checked James brothers and sisters, none of which are named Robert, oh I forgot, on Robert's marriage certificate he listed his father as Robert Linford. James parents were Mace (Mark) Lindford and Jane Bullimore, they had many children but none named Robert. So I am at a dead end there also

Okay, I'll stop my rambling......this is all so interesting to me, I love documenting the family story....

Again, Thank You so much.... I will let you know how I fare..

Dale

[Geoffers]

I ordered, and received, a publication from the 'Calderdale Family History Society', entitled 'Elland St. Mary's Marriages Dec 1815 to June 1822'

Excellent - these publications from local societies are often very good value and a good way to check if it is worth while looking at original records. There is always a certain thrill when finding an original entry relating to your own family - knowing that you are looking at an entry contemporary to ancestor and that he/she may have signed or made a mark.

inside there is this entry
GARSIDE Robert OTP 06/11/1820 B ELL
Booth Frances OTP 809

As you've correcly surmized
otp = of this parish
B = banns

There are lots of abbreviations used in genealogy - it has its own 'language' which you ge tused to over time. Rather than give you too many to take in at once, I'll just include a couple of otherswhich you may find in marriage registers and especially transcripts:

L = Licence
wid = widow
widr = widower
sig = signature
X = made a mark, did not sign
wit = witness

can't help with 809, is therfe an explanation of te layout in the booklet? I don't suppose the previous entry is 808 and the one after 810?? Is it the date of the first banns being read - i.e. 8 (8th) 09 (Sept)?

Anyway, I was able to ascertain that Robert and Fanney were married in the Elland St. Marys church, the question is, what else did they and thier family do there.

Census returns are a good start, certificates will help too. Other sources you might try are directories and maps which are often copied onto CD and can be found on www.parishchest.com - One of the sellers on that site Archive CD Books has a dealership in America, you may find other sources advertising in genealogical magazines.

You have been an immemse help, I was at a dead end.......

Glad t have helped a little. It's often the case that you just need to know the question to ask, in order to locate the answer - and that just comes with experience. As to your LINFORD query - perhaps that's best as a new thread on the Middlesex forum to avoid getting this thread too cluttered. If you get stuck creating a new thread in another forum, let me know and I'll either lead you through it, or through a nifty trick, being a moderator, I can copy part of your last post into a new thread.

Anyway, fare y'well tergerther
Happy Christmas