Transcribing for FreeREG

[John Slann]

I am the Berkshire County co-ordinator for the FreeREG project and am desperate seeking records for transcription.

In February 2005 I wrote to Dr Durrant, the County Archivist at Berkshire Record Office seeking his permission that would allow the Genealogical Society of Utah to release the records they hold for transcription. I wrote many reminders and it was not until 7th December 2005 he finally wrote refusing permission when he said:

“Dear Mr Slann

Thank you for your e-mail.

My discussions with various parties have very recently been concluded and I was on the point of writing to let you know the outcome, which is a decision that we intend to proceed in partnership with the Berkshire Family History Society in promoting access to records here. I shall therefore not be granting other permissions for the transcription of registers, nor shall I be authorising release of GSU films for this purpose.

Yours sincerely

Peter Durrant”

More recently I wrote Archive Books asking to buy Berkshire Church records from them for transcription. I have now heard from them and they said:

“Bad news I am afraid...
We have been asked by the County Archivist at Berkshire Record Office not to supply material relating to Berkshire for the purpose of transcriptions which are to eventually be made available over the Internet. In the interest of good relations with Record Offices we feel that we must comply with this request.
Sorry.”

This is a bitter disappointment to all of us involved with FreeREG, does anyone have any ideas on where I should go next for material for transcription?

John Slann

[Dave]

The reasons are on their web page, they are scanning, ocr and putting on line records, ........no mention yet of cost which I suspect they may

FreeREG will be free at all times

Dave

[Burrow Digger]

I would not be surprised if FreeReg comes up against this for a lot of other counties as well. Since counties know that they can make money by selling transcriptions of parish records - why should they allow their records to be put online for free? I can understand their reasoning.

As for Berkshire Archives ordering Archives Books not to sell Berkshire records as well - I think thats going too far. Does that mean Archives Books will be requiring ANYONE who purchases CD's of parish records to state the reason for their purchase, in order for Archives Books to decide if that sale will be legally allowed or not? I dont think so.

At least thats my opinion.

Burrow Digger

[Rod Neep]

No-one ordered Archive CD Books (or me) not to sell Berkshire records.

The simple fact is that the publishing of church registers on the Internet is a very sensitive subject to many Bishops in England. A County Archivist is also the Diocesan Archivist, responsible to a Bishop.

My personal opinion is that parish registers and transcripts should be available on the Internet, (I was the one who founded FreeREG) but at the same time I do understand and respect the reasons why many Bishops do not want that to happen. In such cases I am not going to go against those wishes of the Bishops.

Regards
Rod

[John Slann]

As much as a admire Rod and all he has done for genealogy, I think on this occasion he is being disingenuous. In refusing FreeREG permission the County Archivist at Berkshire Record Office told me “that we intend to proceed in partnership with the Berkshire Family History Society in promoting access to records here.” And that “I shall therefore not be granting other permissions for the transcription of registers, nor shall I be authorising release of GSU films for this purpose” To me this suggests to me that he has given permission the BFHS to transcribe.

And then Rod said “No-one ordered Archive CD Books (or me) not to sell Berkshire records.” In fairness I never suggested that he did, I just quoted from an e-mail sent by a member of his staff which said; “We have been asked by the County Archivist at Berkshire Record Office not to supply material relating to Berkshire for the purpose of transcriptions which are to eventually be made available over the Internet. In the interest of good relations with Record Offices we feel that we must comply with this request”

None of the correspondence makes any mention of the sensitivity of some peoples feelings. So is there another reason for the Archivists refusal?

I wonder if Rod as the founder of FreeREG can tell me where I can get some Berkshire records for my volunteer transcribers to use? I made a request to Archive Books to buy the Berkshire Church records CD, please could he let me know if I can now buy a copy? Or perhaps I should go to the Berkshire Family History Society and buy copies?

John Slann

[Ladkyis]

But John even if you bought the CDs you could not publish the information on them - even in your own transcription - without the permission of the Diocesan Archivist because you might own the bit of plastic but the images and information are not yours and Rod is correct when he says that some Bishops are very careful, we might think them over cautious but that is just our opinion, about what happens to their registers and While I too would love to see all the registers on the internet for free I am realistic enough to know that we have to take this slowly and carefully.

If your transcribers are desperate for something to do could you not offer to help a neighbouring county? Just a thought

Ann
in sunny but COLD Newport Gwent

[Rod Neep]

I wonder if Rod as the founder of FreeREG can tell me where I can get some Berkshire records for my volunteer transcribers to use?

As the founder of the FreeReg project I was very aware of the fact that it would be difficult to gain permission and access to records for some counties.

Perhaps you could contact the LDS for copies of their films, and ask for their permission to transcribe from them.

I made a request to Archive Books to buy the Berkshire Church records CD, please could he let me know if I can now buy a copy? Or perhaps I should go to the Berkshire Family History Society and buy copies?

John Slann

There is nothing to prevent anyone purchasing the Archive CD Books CDs for personal use.

Perhaps you could also purchase the products of the Berkshire Family History Society, but without permission to reproduce them for FreeReg, then one would be in the position of "using someone else's work" to create a new product, and that would be an infringement of their copyright.

I appreciate that these are not necessarily the answers that you want to hear, but these kind of problems have existed for several decades. My personal philosphy on these problems is that I do not want to be in the position of going against the wishes of the Bishops, the County/Diocesan Archivists, or the county family history societies.

Regards
Rod

[kazrbutler]

Access to records does vary, even for private research. I have recently been investigating copies of parish registers for areas which I don't have easy access to. Restrictions on access seem to vary from county to county, some archives can provide copies of parish registers on fiche etc for private research, though there may be restrictions on transcribing for publication. For others, permission is / may be required from the current incumbent of the relevant parish. From some counties (Nottinghamshire for example) , copies are simply not available for purchase, other than by libraries.

Access to transcripts also varies. I think FreeReg is a brilliant idea. Initially, I think we have to accept that it is going to be easier for some counties than others. Even if full coverage is not possible due to access, hopefully it will help increase coverage and fill in gaps not covered by county indexes and transcriptions. As the benefits become apparent, and archive staff / Bishops etc change, then access may become easier in counties where difficulties are now apparent.

Transcriptions made without relevant permission etc will not help progress with FreeReg. Finding a way to work with relevant parties may be difficult and involve a change in thinking. One way forward might be to find a way to work with Berkshire FHS, to increase their coverage of transcriptions. Some agreement may be possible (in the long run) with all relevant parties so data can eventually become available to be used for FreeReg. It is often easier to work with the current, then fight against it.

While I sympathise with your frustration John: Rod and ACDB's existence is dependent on cooperation with the relevant holders (archives) and owners (bishops etc) of the relevant documents.

Karen

[Dave]

As the founder of the FreeReg project I was very aware of the fact that it would be difficult to gain permission and access to records for some counties.

Perhaps you could contact the LDS for copies of their films, and ask for their permission to transcribe from them.


Regards
Rod

LDS require that we also have County Record Office permission as well.
Berkshire refused to supply that

They also welcome us to transcribe, I have had stuff for Worcestershire (letter of approval from WOR Record Office)

The one county which bends over backwards to help is Somerset, an example to be followed by all

Is there no one from Berkshire reading this? we need you

[k0065126]

It is worth bearing in mind that if anyone uses material without permission from the relevant body then FreeREG could be sued and this would kill the project.

Viv