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Thread: Henry Dyer

  1. #1
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    Default Henry Dyer

    Hi folks.

    I have Henry Dyer 1871-1944 Kensington/Hammersmith MMN Harris, as per GRO.

    I am looking for his father George Henry Dyer 1846-1919 Notting hill/Kensington.
    Also his wife! I have two ladies One is a Susan Harris and from marriages Elizabeth Ann Lillington

    Your help and advice would be very much appreciated.
    Regards Tom

  2. #2
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    I thought the name Susan Harris rang a bell.

    In a recent thread
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...-a-marriage-Hi

    Further found in an older thread
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...88291-Marriage

    From that older thread, I'm reading it that the conclusion was that George and Susan never married. Or at least, not before Henry was born in 1871.
    And from the newer thread, again that no marriage has been found prior to the birth of Henry in 1871.

    And (although I only read it a few minutes ago!) I believe there was doubt that Henry's father was George Henry, as opposed to a plain George.

    So for starters, tomm, you need to thoroughly re-read both of those threads.

    Then we need a little clarification.
    The thread is headed 'Henry Dyer', and you begin
    I have Henry Dyer 1871-1944 Kensington/Hammersmith MMN Harris, as per GRO.
    but then go on to say

    I am looking for his father George Henry Dyer 1846-1919 Notting hill/Kensington.
    Also his wife! I have two ladies One is a Susan Harris and from marriages Elizabeth Ann Lillington.
    which is slightly confusing as the wives could belong to either George or Henry.

    However, you're definitely referring to the wives of George. So therefore, shouldn't the thread be headed George Dyer?

    Meanwhile, the marriage of George Henry Dyer and Elizabeth Ann Lillington took place at Trinity Church, Paddington, on 22 December 1872. Groom was 26, an engineer, and Elizabeth 22.
    Image available on Ancestry's London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938.
    So this George Henry Dyer and Elizabeth Ann Lillington would appear to be not relevant to your family.

    And the question about a marriage between a George Dyer and Susan Harris still comes to the conclusion that they never married. Unless Susan was a widow when she married George. If you haven't got Henry's birth certificate then I would advise that you get a copy. If Susan had been married then her name should be given as Susan, formerly (e.g. Bloggs) nee Harris. Though I don't think that the details were always written like that.
    I can't see a marriage on either FreeBMD or FMP for a George Dyer and a Susan Harris 1865 - 1911.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
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    Hello Pam

    Sorry for the delay in responding to your in depth analysis of my problem with the Dyer family.
    I have read and reread what you have said and will get Williams birth Cert and work from there.
    I do have many old pieces of paper from the family but they are quite confusing.
    So many thanks for your time and patience for me.
    Kind regards
    Tomm

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    Hello Pam

    Sorry for the delay in responding to your in depth analysis of my problem with the Dyer family.
    I have read and reread what you have said and will get Williams birth Cert and work from there.
    I do have many old pieces of paper from the family but they are quite confusing.
    So many thanks for your time and patience for me.
    Kind regards
    Tomm

  5. #5
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    Think I may have already given you this as the place to apply for certificates.
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
    You can get a black-and-white PDF copy for seven quid.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  6. #6
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    Thanks for your help Pam I do appreciate it...

    Kind regards
    Tomm

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    Default George Dyer

    Hi

    George Dyer
    I have followed the advice that was given in my earlier post re: a marriage for George.
    to a Susan Mary Harris. I have now got the birth cert for his son Henry born 1871.
    Which states the mother as Susan Dyer formerly Harris. So did they marry or just live together!
    Thank you.

    Tomm

  8. #8
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    Tomm

    I have had a trawl of various marriage records, and I do not think that that they did marry.

    It is possible that Susan had been married before she married George. If she were a widow (it is unlikely in the 1860s that there was a divorce), then she would have married under her married name, although on the birth certificates of children born in the second marriage her name would be recorded as "Susan Dyer formerly Harris", meaning that Harris was her maiden name.

    So for instance suppose that Susan Mary Harris married Fred Smith who died and then she married George Dyer. The marriage record would be listed in the index as Susan Mary Smith and George Dyer.

    I have tried searching for likely marriages between George Dyer and Susan Mary (no surname), without success.

    So why were they not married? Well its possible that one or both of them were married to someone else who was still living, and so they were not free to marry. Before divorce become more freely available in the 20th century this was quite a common occurrence. Another possible reason could be that they were barred by the law from marrying. There is something called "prohibited degrees" which set out who you could not marry and after 1835 these were:

    Parent / child
    Grandparent / grandchild
    Sibling
    Aunt / uncle
    Niece / nephew
    Spouse's parent / child
    Parent's / child spouse
    Spouse's grandparents / grandchild
    Grandparent's / grandchild's spouse
    Spouse's sibling
    Sibling's spouse
    Spouse's aunt / uncle
    Spouse of aunt / uncle
    Spouse's niece / nephew
    Spouse of niece / nephew

    The one in bold above prevented my gr gr grandparents from marrying in the 1840s, because she was the widow of his uncle!

  9. #9
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    Hi Megan
    Thank you for taking the time to read my appeal for help and explaining it.

    I very much appreciate it.

    Regards
    Tomm

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