William Hobbs "a sailor"

[Hobbsy22]

Hi, i hope i get the format right.

My brick wall, i would love some help.

i do know:

William Hobbs - died by 1944,


his son, also William, 1875 - 1950, born in Portsmouth on the 1921 census, with
"wife" Annie, born isle of man.
son william age 4, born new mills
daughter emily age 10 month born new mills
to follow were arthur, William, Annie and thomas.

by 1922 they were all living in new mills, HOWEVER William and Annie didnt actually marry until 1944, i suspect he was already married.

any info will be fabulous

Ali

[almach]

Hi Hobbsy22 and welcome to B-G Forums.

I'm struggling with this query. Some extra information would help.

Re: William born 1875, where did you get his birthplace and his father's name from? Can you please give details. You say William senior was deceased before 1944 and that's the year William the younger married Annie Perry so I'm assuming you have William and Annie's marriage certificate, if so please post all details entered, does it say William was a bachelor, or a widower?

Do you have a copy of the 1921 census, if so please give the details entered i.e. age, place of birth and occupation and all family members entered.

Which William was a sailor?

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1939 Register, 31 Brookside, New Mills. William Hobbs born 14th July 1875; General Labourer.
Annie Hobbs born 19th March 1895, household duties unpaid.

I can't see a birth in Portsmouth to fit with a birth of 14 July 1875

[Hobbsy22]

hi, many thanks for the reply and welcome, i have the 1921 census which states, 1875 william was born in Portsmouth Hampshire It states that he is married and is aged 46 and 11 months.
his "wife" of this time states she is also married and is age 27 and 3 months. she was born isle of man.

2 children at this time, william age 4 and 10 months born Thornset (new mills) high peak.
emily 10 months born new mills.

so i know this is correct as other children follow which i know from family members are correct.

I also have their marriage cert for 1944. same names etc same address as my father was born, everything is correct, but how can they be married on 1921 census yet get married in 1944? yes william 1 is listed as bachelor and she spinster. 14th oct 1944. register office chapel en le frith, derbyshire.

on this marriage cert it states father of groom is william hobbs (deceased) occupation a sailor.


it is this william (sailor) i cannot find. i have been told he was a rum chap who was into all sorts of dodgy deals, a big drinker.

although 1st william states he was born in Portsmouth, i assume william the sailor was also there.

my fathers birth cert is correct and states maiden name of mother as Perry in 1922.

does this make it any clearer than mud?

many thanks Alison

[almach]

Thank you for the additional information, Alison.

i have the 1921 census which states, 1875 william was born in Portsmouth Hampshire It states that he is married and is aged 46 and 11 months.

The 1921 census was taken on 19th June 1921, indicating a July birth. But places his birth year as 1874.

The 1939 register has William born on 14th July 1875.

Seems we are looking for a July birth in 3rd quarter Jul - Sept 1874 or 1875. Unfortunately there isn't one to fit in the Portsea registration district.

William could have been registered elsewhere, and moved to Portsmouth after his birth. There aren't many births for a William Hobbs 3rd qrt 1874 or 1875. Perhaps we could try and eliminate some and see which we are left with.

[Jomot1]

There certainly seems to be something 'off' with them not marrying until so many years later and there being such an age gap, so the information William has provided may not be entirely accurate.

I haven't looked into this one any further so it may be easily dismissed, but this marriage seemed interesting:

29 Dec 1900, Woking, Surrey
William Hobbs 27 Bachelor, Labourer of Portugal Road, Woking. Father William Hobbs, Sailor, Deceased
Annie Clarke 25 Spinster, same address. Father: Robert Clarke, Carpenter
Wits: Emma Smith, William Hicks

ADDED: No, doesn't look like its him. I think they had a daughter Gladys Annie in 1902 and that he & Annie were still together in 1939, BUT he seems to be William Henry Hobbs born 1871 & baptised 20 Feb 1878, Bideford, Devon, the illegitimate son of Caroline Hobbs. If so then this particular 'William Hobbs, sailor, deceased' doesn't exist, which may also be the case for 'your' William Hobbs, Sailor Deceased!

[almach]

1881 RG11; Piece: 1149; Folio: 83; Page: 1;

There's a William Hobbs age 45, born Alverstoke, married, a stoker on HMS Asia in Portsea

Also in 1881 RG11; Piece: 1149; Folio: 197; Page: -8

born same place and same age and in Portsmouth on HMS Speedy which seems odd!

If so then this particular 'William Hobbs, sailor, deceased' doesn't exist, which may also be the case for 'your' William Hobbs, Sailor Deceased

It is possible as Jomot says that William the sailor didn't exist, it was not uncommon for illegitimate folk to invent a father.

[Jomot1]

1881 RG11; Piece: 1149; Folio: 83; Page: 1;

There's a William Hobbs age 45, born Alverstoke, married, a stoker on HMS Asia in Portsea

Also in 1881 RG11; Piece: 1149; Folio: 197; Page: -8

born same place and same age and in Portsmouth on HMS Speedy which seems odd!

His record is on the National Archives and can be downloaded for free, once you've registered. DoB given as 2 October 1835. Last served on the Asia Feb 1877-Nov 1882, and then invalided.

There is also an earlier William Hobbs born Alverstoke who attested in 1846 aged 22years & 4 months and was a brickmaker. That one is just a summary record and I don't really understand some of it, but his entry is crossed through and under the column headed 'when set off the rolls' it says 21 Aug 1846 Dd Paid £20.

[Hobbsy22]

oh such wonderful replies, on a similar idea to me, i suspect thres some fibbing going on. my father said he never knew his grandfather as he had died before he was born in 1922. he did say he was a londoner as was william of 14th july. he said something about either his father or grandfather had been in prison. dont know if it was military or not.

i shall follow those leads up thankyou.

i am also suspicious regarding the marriage, re 1921 married yet marriage cert states 1944. i suspect he was already married.

thanks again, Alison

[grisel]

In 1891 there is a William Hobbs in Portsea stepson to Joseph Dawes and Sarah. I think Joseph Dawes married a Sarah Hobbs.She was born 1844 Cowes.
I think a Sarah Smith may have married a William Hobbs in 1868 Portsea. In 1871 they are in Portsea. He gives pob as Hampshire 1834.
A William John Hobbs mmnSmith born Portsea 1874.
A William Hobbs age 43 dies in Portsea in 1876.
The William John b1874 may not be yours but is worth checking I think.

[Hobbsy22]

many thanks i will look into it .A