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  1. #1

    Default Elias Barron and Matheus Brez

    Looking for information on my great great grandfathers.

    I have purchased a marriage certificate for my Great Grandmothers parents which has given me the names of my great great grandfathers.

    My great grandmother was Annie Barron DOB 1896/1897, DOD 04/12/1926.

    Her father was Solomon Barron DOB 1866, DOD 01/03/1936 and her mother was Jane Barron (nee Brez)DOB 07/05/1868, DOD 03/10/1954.

    They married June 1895 and the marriage cert lists their fathers as...
    Elias Barron - traveller
    Matheus Brez - tailor

    I believe the family were possibly from Latvia.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated

    Thank you

    Esther

  2. #2
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    The 1911 census has a Solomon Barron and Jane Barron living at 31 Gloucester Buildings, St. Georges. He was a Tailor Presser born Russia. Jane was also born in Russia. The children were all born in England: Annie, Dora, Alick, Hannah, Fanny, Joe and Reuben. On the 1939 register, there is a Jane Barron whose date of birth is showing as 7 April 1868. She is living with Joseph, Gertrude and Fanny at 5 Rutherford House, Bethnal Green.

  3. #3

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    I have begun to look at the JewishGen Latvia data base and other sources and noted the Brez and Barron aka Baron and derivations. My own family lines came from Latvia and it is important to note name changes to both first and last names as an example my line adopted a surname which bears no relationship to their original name. Similarly, it is important to recognise that both Jewish and Russian/Polish names were used by the same individuals.

    I will post relevant data if it emerges.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  4. #4

    Default BRAZ-BARRON FAMILY LINE FROM LATVIA

    Esther
    I can see that you have been searching earlier on your Barron/Braz lines- JewishGen. One of the researchers suggested that you look on the Latvia data bases as I have done. For clarity and to help other researchers Solomon Baron 1 March 1936 Enfield TT 7 15 and Jane Barron 3 October 1954 Enfield TT 34 29 are their burial records which appear on the JewishGen Online Burial Records.

    The Brez aka Braz and Barron aka Baron plus the various last name derivations are going to need specialist research to confirm data and origins. The Latvia SIG group maybe your best option. The Latvia data bases plus the JewishGen Family tree does not provide clear data on your lines without further research. If you look on the Latvia names you will see the difficulty in identifying the correct individuals.
    As an example of the difficulty, my own Latvian family relatives have used their tribal name ( Hebrew name) and also their Russian name so you have a Hebrew name on the marriage record and in a Naturalisation record their Russian name.

    I would seek help from the Latvia SIG Group unless another researcher has obtained further information and is related to you.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post
    The 1911 census has a Solomon Barron and Jane Barron living at 31 Gloucester Buildings, St. Georges. He was a Tailor Presser born Russia. Jane was also born in Russia. The children were all born in England: Annie, Dora, Alick, Hannah, Fanny, Joe and Reuben. On the 1939 register, there is a Jane Barron whose date of birth is showing as 7 April 1868. She is living with Joseph, Gertrude and Fanny at 5 Rutherford House, Bethnal Green.
    Hi Sue,

    This matches with what I have recorded.

    Thank you

    Esther

  6. #6

    Default

    Hi Phillip,

    Thank you for your reply and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I think you may have mentioned previous to me the Latvia SIG Group last year when I found some time to do family tree research. I do remember looking at the website but once again getting overwhelmed and giving up. I have had another look at the website this morning, is there a forum that is associated with it?

    Is there a way of figuring out if surnames have been changed? I hadn't realized until someone translated a headstone for me that there was a Hebrew name.

    Thank you again for your help.

    Esther

  7. #7

    Default

    Hi Esther
    The Latvia SIG group changed their name to JewishGen Latvia and Estonia Research Division-latvia.jewishgen.org
    If you go onto the site and look at the Projects and Opportunities Page at the bottom of the page is a contact e mail address. This is a small research group of directors and worth trying to contact them. Looking at their work they are transcribing a range of Latvian and Lithuanian records and these are being added to JewishGen Data base. A great deal of research and updates have been made but you will need help trying to locate your people not least because of possible name changes and original Russian names.
    It maybe unlikely that the names of your people are their original ones as I have discovered myself so you will need help identifying what their original names were. The Barron and Braz names were used as you can see from the JewishGen records but you would be fortunate if the names used in the UK for your people matched exactly those in the records in Latvia/Lithuania.

    Let us know how you get on if you make contact with the group.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  8. #8

    Default

    Hi Philip,

    I tried to make contact with the group but have not heard back as yet.

    I really do feel very lost with my grandfathers side of the family tree. Is there a way to find out if names were changed? Was there a rule to follow or were names just changed?

    I would be happy to sit and work my way through hundreds of records I just need pointing in the direction of the records!

    Esther

  9. #9

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    Hi Esther
    It's frustrating I know trying to locate the family names. The problem for any of us who have Jewish ancestors is that surnames or last names were not used originally. Tribal names or patronymic names were the usual naming tradition. Various edicts in France and Austro Hungarian Empire, Russian Empire during late 1700s forced Jews to adopt surnames. Some surnames were imposed and others bought. Names changed on arrival in the country of settlement- many names bore no relationship to country of origin. My own relatives chose their place of origin such as Courland or Krakow. Others adopted both place of origin such as their shtetl and tribal name so you have Jacobs and Letson/Lietzen as an example.
    Others adopted a simple name which again bore no relationship to a family name.
    Some kept derivations of Yiddish, German, Russian, Polish names.
    The complexity of naming is clear to see but makes tracing our ancestors very difficult and sometimes impossible.
    Our family records such as birth, marriage, death were also limited or destroyed depending on who ruled and how anti semitic the country or province was.

    However, this is not all negative because there are major projects aimed at tracing our lines such as the SIG ( Special Interest Groups. Here are some suggestions- look at the JewishGen Family tree of the Jewish People under Barron, Braz but include derivations- you might want to contact the up to date researchers who have these names as ones they are researching - I have noted some with last update 2021, 2022. I always look 'outside the box' and ask the researchers what they know about their Baron/Braz.

    If you look on Avotaynu website under Jewish Surnames adopted in Various Regions of the Russian Empire- Alexander Beider 2008 you will see a very useful article on tracing ancestors. See also on Avotaynu Consolidated Jewish Surname Index for Poland, Lithuania, Latvia,Russia which will give you a wide range of derivations of Barron,Braz and links to sources. In addition, see LITVAKSIG which is the Lithuanian Special Interest Group. At present you believe that your lines came from Latvia but I would suggest looking more broadly. If you study Jewish history for the period you will note the pogroms and military service forced on Jews in Russia and elsewhere which helps explain why they left their home place.

    There are not going to be hundreds of records for you to look at regarding your lines and you will need specialist support unless you can read and speak Yiddish, Russian, Polish. Numbers of these records may appear over time as research progresses but I would recommend that you link with one of the SIG groups or a person who has the same last names you are looking for always remembering that derivations are crucial and not to be over looked.

    I hope this is of some use and explains the complexities.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  10. #10

    Default

    Hi Esther
    Just a small update- I noted that JewishGen have updated their Ukraine data base- Ukraine Revision Lists. These lists contain data on individuals with surnames Baron/Baran/Boran/Barun/Borun/Boron/Braz/Bras. There are more records on the linked site. These records include census and other data from 1852 and 1875 and earlier.

    My advice as per my previous e mail is to look at all related data for the various regions. You will note that many individuals have Russian first names with a few Jewish first names. This is a common feature of the records and an important one because individuals would use their Hebrew name within the family and their Russian/Polish names in public or for official records. You may not see Solomon or Elias et al et al on these records and the spellings of last names are not going to be written in English but in the Russian or Polish language. The data which appears on the JewishGen records has been translated into English which means that original documents would need someone to translate them if not recorded on an English data base as per JewishGen.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

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