Where did John Collyer go?

[DebbieLou]

Hello,
I know very little about John Collyer who was born in December 1786 and baptised on 31st December 1786 at St James. Paddington. He was the son of Henry Collyer and Elizabeth Murphy who married in April 1795. John was their only child. Henry died in February 1797.

In August 1810 John's mother Elizabeth made a sworn statement (which is now attached to the baptism record) to state that at the time of his baptism his name was written as Collier but she wished to correct the record saying it should have been spelled Collyer. At this time John would have been 24 years old. I wondered if this was done as he was taking up a profession and needed to confirm his baptism. I don't believe he would have needed one to get married. Why did she go to the trouble of correcting the record after all those years?

I have found some references to John Collyer/Collier on Ancestry/FMP but cannot find anything I can verify as being this John Collyer. Nor can I find anything about Elizabeth following the death of Henry.


At one time Elizabeth's statement could be read on Ancestry but now it cannot be seen apart from as an attachment at the top of the parish record....

I'd appreciate any help or suggestions....

[Pam Downes]

It would be helpful if you were a little more specific about

I have found some references to John Collyer/Collier on Ancestry/FMP but cannot find anything I can verify as being this John Collyer.

You must anyway have some other details about John e.g. census, marriage, burial, in order to have found his baptism. The more you can tell us of exactly what you've found and then which bits relate to 'yours', the more likely it is that forum members can offer help instead of wasting time chasing records for the wrong John.

[DebbieLou]

Hi Pam,
I really do not have any further information about John other than his baptism and the change made by his mother.

It being a common name there are entries on Ancestry/FMP but I cannot verify if they are THIS John Collyer.

I probably discovered he existed from a brief mention in his father's will. I am assuming he was still alive in 1810 when his mother made the alteration to the parish baptism record.

[Jomot1]

I'm a bit confused (doesn't take much!).

The will of Henry Collyer makes no mention of a wife or son, and leaves everything to his Nephew, John Towney** (?) of the Custom House, Newcastle.

**John Tousey - see: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C10015402

For whatever reason, on 28 Jul 1797 administration was granted to 'Nathaniel Collyer Esq, the natural and lawful brother and one of the next of kin of the said deceased limited until the original will of the said deceased or a more authentic copy thereof shall be brought into and left in the Registry of the [?] Prerogative Court of Canterbury......'

I see that the address for Henry is Lisson Green, St Marylebone, and the oath by Elizabeth in 1810 says she is a widow and gives her address as Upper Lisson Street, St Marylebone.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...475&cat=130306

Other than the similarity of addresses, what makes you sure that this is 'your' Henry?

I assume that this is Elizabeth in 1812: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...d-995ce1cdcb59

[Jomot1]

Also, if Henry Collyer & Elizabeth Murphy married in April 1795, what makes you so certain that the child born 9 years earlier was theirs?

The baptism doesn't mention a maiden surname for Elizabeth, and nor does the oath.

[helachau]

Morning Post, 21 Sep 1809
GAME DUTY - List 1 - List of Persons who have obtained General Certificates, at the Rate of Three Guineas each, for the year 1809, in the County of Middlesex, exclusive of the Cities of London, and Westminster, and Inns of Court, made up to the 9th of September 1809.
Name and Residence
Collier, John, Lisson Green

[helachau]

The Middlesex Game List for the year ended 5 Sep 1808, published in the Morning Post 12 Sep 1808 included "John Collyer, residence - Winchester Row".

[helachau]

In 1808 Winchester Row was an address in Paddington/St. Marylebone. On the '51 Census it follows Homer Street which is still there on modern maps.
You can see Homer Street on this street plan London (pub c.1851) - but Winchester Row not marked.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/230275391 - see top right hand corner. Lisson Street is close by but Lisson Green not marked.

[helachau]

Rumsey's 1843 map shows Winchester Row- off Edgeware Road
https://rumsey.geogarage.com/maps/g0890184.html

[helachau]

Checking around, Lisson Green appears to describe an area of Paddington/Marylebone rather than a specific address. For example, the Queen Charlotte Lying In Hospital in 1823 is described as "in Lisson Green". Another early address states "16 Mitcham Street, Lisson Green, Paddington".