Haines family

[almach]

Dear Almach
a friend sent me the marriage cdert for Robert born 1831. it states parent John Haines and Esther Rogers.
wife Sarah Jane Winfield. born Evell Oxfordshire (spelling was hard ro read). father Charles Winfield and Esther Palmer.
will follow up some more.
Doreen

Sarah Jane Winfield, Christening Date 25 Dec 1847, Ewelme, Oxfordshire, parents Charles and Esther.

Robert's twin brother, Thomas, possibly married Sarah Jane's sister.
From the Australia Marriage Index.
Thomas Haines, Ann Sophia Wunfield (could it be Winfield)1864 Victoria Registration Number: 2587

Ann sophia Winfield; Christening Date 7 Mar 1841, Ewelme, Oxfordshire, parents Charles and Esther.

[DoreenH]

Dear Alma
thankyou. Please take care and dont over do it, your health comes first.
I traced up the immigration records to SA, and yes, I agree, John, Hester and family did come to Australia.
found deaths for the children, but still looking for John and Hester (Esther).
Also followed your lead with Johns brother Henry and weas able I think I am right,
parents of John and Henry are Robert Haines and Mary Mulcock. I also found their other siblings on familysearch.org. then followed Robert's mother Catherine back to her parents John Haines and Mary Dax and their other children. Now with any luck, trying to find the bdm for John Haiens and Mary Dax and their parents.
once again, a very greatful thankyou.
Doreenh

[almach]

Where John and Esther died and were buried is puzzling me.

Pam posted @#6 and the details are looking good.

FMP's Wiltshire burials index has an Hester (sic) Haines buried in Cricklade St Sampson in March 1867, aged 66.
And a John Haines, buried in Cricklade St Sampson in April 1871, aged 72.

But, there's this passenger list which has to be them.

Passenger departure date 1850, arrival date 1851.
John Haines age 50; Hester Haines 49; Martha Haines 12; Robert Haines 19; Thomas Haines 19;
Jane Haines 16.

Also, this 1861 census, Cricklade. RG09; Piece 1274; Folio 54; Page 10.
John Haines, 60, ag. lab. Eisey
Esther Haines, 59, Cricklade,

The logical explanation is John and Esther set sail for Aus in 1850 (they can't be found on 1851 census) but returned to England 1851 - 1861. However, I haven't found them on an incoming voyage.

[DoreenH]

Dear Alma
yes I agree, I think maybe John and Esther went back to Wiltshire. as I had their deaths there in the beginning but when you thru in the immigration, that stumped me as I havent been able to find deaths in SDA or Vic, as two children stayed in SA and the two boys went to Vic.
however, Martha died in 1858 SA, sO I will order her death cert to see if anything is listed reagarding parents alive or deceased. And go from there. thankyou. Doreenh

[DoreenH]

Dear Alma
found Hester Haines, spouse John and 5 children left wiltshire to South Australia.
all children married and died in Australia. but no record of Hester and John,
However, according to family search, Hester and John were buried in Wiltshire,
according to SA family history centre, they couldnt find a death record and believe that both Hester and John did return to Wiltshire bet death of last son 1854 to Hesters death in 1867.
Are you able to find a shipping record for them. I have tried but no luck.
thanking you
Doreenh

[Pam Downes]

Dear Alma
found Hester Haines, spouse John and 5 children left wiltshire to South Australia.
all children married and died in Australia. but no record of Hester and John,
However, according to family search, Hester and John were buried in Wiltshire,
according to SA family history centre, they couldnt find a death record and believe that both Hester and John did return to Wiltshire bet death of last son 1854 to Hesters death in 1867.
Are you able to find a shipping record for them. I have tried but no luck.
thanking you
Doreenh

Doreen, see the last paragraph of Alma's post #13 where she has already answered your question..

The logical explanation is John and Esther set sail for Aus in 1850 (they can't be found on 1851 census) but returned to England 1851 - 1861. However, I haven't found them on an incoming voyage.

[DoreenH]

Dear Pam
I hope you are okay.
I have another question. I have John Haines b1743 died 1779 Wiltshire msrried to Mary Culverhouse born 1721 Wiltshire died 1774 Wiltshire married 8 Feb 1741 Corsley Wiltshire. But I also found an Ann Culberhouse married to a John Haines on 8 Feb 1741 Corsley Wiltshire. Some other trees have Ann as sister to Mary. But surely John wouldnt marry both at the same time. Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933. I am staying with Mary as spouse of John. Mary's parents were Samuel and Sarah. havent found a birth for an Ann with parents Samuel and sarah. But havent found a marriage for Sanyek Culverhouse and a Sarah. Found a death in IGR for Sarah Culverhouse wife of Samuel 26 Jan 1729 North Bradley Wiltshire. hoping you can help with Sarah's maiden name and date of marriage. regards Doreeh

[Pam Downes]

Dear Pam
I hope you are okay.
I have another question. I have John Haines b1743 died 1779 Wiltshire msrried to Mary Culverhouse born 1721 Wiltshire died 1774 Wiltshire married 8 Feb 1741 Corsley Wiltshire.

Spot the 'that's totally' wrong bit.
Firstly, although it's not impossible, it's unlikely that a man born in 1743 would have married a woman born in 1721.
What is impossible is that someone born in 1743 got married in 1741, so you need to double-check your findings.

But I also found an Ann Culberhouse married to a John Haines on 8 Feb 1741 Corsley Wiltshire. Some other trees have Ann as sister to Mary. But surely John wouldnt marry both at the same time. Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933. I am staying with Mary as spouse of John. Mary's parents were Samuel and Sarah. havent found a birth for an Ann with parents Samuel and sarah. But havent found a marriage for Sanyek Culverhouse and a Sarah. Found a death in IGR for Sarah Culverhouse wife of Samuel 26 Jan 1729 North Bradley Wiltshire. hoping you can help with Sarah's maiden name and date of marriage. regards Doreeh

Regarding the Mary/Ann marrying John Haines in 1741 remember that you are looking at transcriptions, and the primary sources of those transcriptions are not given. So the PR could say one name, and the BT/AT say another, or one of the transcribers may have made an error. So you need to see the pages in the PR/BT/AT. Wiltshire Archives should be able to provide copies; you will have to decide whether the cost is worth it.

Re the Culverhouses, North Bradley and Corsley parishes both border Somerset county, so you may need to extend your search to there.
To find out about parishes, and where they were in relation to another see
https://www.familysearch.org/mapp/
If you search for North Bradley, travel south through Dilton Marsh and Corsley is the next village.
If you search for Corsley. then travel north through Dilton Marsh, and North Bradley is next.

[DoreenH]

dear ladies
I have another question put to me by family friend.

we found a probate notice for a John Hainnes died 1871 Cricklade Wiltshire (which is the John Haines prevous discussed who came back to Wiltshire from Australia with wife Hester/Esther.)

anyway, probate staress: The Will of John Haines late of Cricklate in the county of Wiltshire labourer who died 22 Apr 1871 at Brickldate was proved by Salisbury by Elizabeth Haines of Woodbury Down Stroke Neweington in the county of Middlesex, spinster the grand daughter the sole Executrix."
we are trying to find who Elizabeth's parents were.
thanking you
Doreenh

[Pam Downes]

dear ladies
I have another question put to me by family friend.

we found a probate notice for a John Hainnes died 1871 Cricklade Wiltshire (which is the John Haines prevous discussed who came back to Wiltshire from Australia with wife Hester/Esther.)

anyway, probate staress: The Will of John Haines late of Cricklate in the county of Wiltshire labourer who died 22 Apr 1871 at Brickldate was proved by Salisbury by Elizabeth Haines of Woodbury Down Stroke Neweington in the county of Middlesex, spinster the grand daughter the sole Executrix."
we are trying to find who Elizabeth's parents were.
thanking you
Doreenh

So, in 1841, this is John and Esther and family.

Dear Almach,
As far as I am aware, they had 6 children. twins Robert and Thomas, Elizabeth, Jane, Martha and James. according to 1841 census. piece 1178, book 7, folio 6, pge 7

I think it possible this passenger list is for most of that family, in which case it's likely John and Esther/Hester died in Australia.

Passenger departure date 1850, arrival date 1851.
John Haines age 50; Hester Haines 49; Martha Haines 12; Robert Haines 19; Thomas Haines 19;
Jane Haines 16.

Dear Alma
yes I agree, I think maybe John and Esther went back to Wiltshire. as I had their deaths there in the beginning but when you thru in the immigration, that stumped me as I havent been able to find deaths in SDA or Vic, as two children stayed in SA and the two boys went to Vic.
however, Martha died in 1858 SA, sO I will order her death cert to see if anything is listed reagarding parents alive or deceased. And go from there. thankyou. Doreenh

First you need to consider the fact that if Elizabeth is called Haines, then she's either the daughter of one of the sons, or else the illegitimate daughter of one of the daughters.
Then she has to be at a minimum probably 21 years old, so therefore born about 1850 or earlier.
She's unlikely to be the child of Robert or Thomas who emigrated with John and Esther in 1850. Ditto Jane, and almost certainly not Martha who was only 12 when she emigrated but who also died in 1858.
Which only leaves Elizabeth. Don't know when she was born as she's not at home in 1841.
Unless there's a further child of John and Esther who you haven't found.

You might need to invest a few dollars in buying a copy of the will to see when John signed and dated it, and to see if there are any further clues in it.