Ashby - Ball marriage, Yelvertoft

[suemalings]

The parish register for Yelvertoft also shows a Richard Ashby buried on 11 August 1719, Merchant of London. Bishops Transcrips show the same entry. The only marriage I see is still to Alice Robard in 1633. There is a marriage entry on FamilySearch for Richard Ashby marrying Alice Hill on 1 May 1661 in St. Andrew, Droitwich, Worcestershire.

[wilson8]

Thanks again, Sue - the Richard Ashby whose death you found in 1719 is Jane's brother (born in Yelvertoft,
moved to London). He's the one I mentioned above who left money for the building of a charity school
in Yelvertoft. He and sister Jane were both children of Richard Ashby and Alice (maiden name ?, possibly
"Ball" or something similar). I'm sure the marr you found of Richard Ashby and Alice Hill is not
my ancestors, as the date does not fit. Since you have seen for yourself how difficult it is to read
some sections of the Yelvertoft registers, I believe that the marriage I am seeking is there, but on
a page that is illegible. So sad, as we have really everything else, but Alice's maiden name for sure, which would enable us to look back at her line, but without definite proof, at a standstill. Can't thank you enough.

[wilson8]

Just a bit of more info. After Richard Ashby died, his widow Alice remarried to Joseph Walton - I believe in Yelvertoft, but perhaps in a nearby village. Alice and 2nd husband Joseph Walton had several children - a bit on two of them below (just in case someone runs across these names sometime and perhaps their family tree which might list maiden name of their mother Alice - Alice's name though may just be shown as "Alice Ashby" meaning her surname by first husband Richard. Anyway, a bit of info below:

Margaret Walton (dau of Alice (nee Ball?) Ashby and 2nd husband Joseph Walton) was born circa 1660 perhaps
in West Haddon or Yelvertoft. Margaret went on to marry John Norton - born circa 1659/60 in Northamptonshire, prob in or near to Yelvertoft.

Elizabeth Walton (dau of Alice (nee Ball?) Ashby and 2nd husband Joseph Walton) born a few yrs prior or
after sister Margaret above. Elizabeth went on to marry William Prowitt - also born in Northamptonshire.

[pwholt]

Some thoughts to consider: You are asking for the maiden name of Richard Ashby's wife. Perhaps she was a widow when she married him and so the Robard's marriage becomes a possibility. The period 1640-1660 can be patchy for coverage of parish registers because of the English Civil War. So the marriage you seek may not have survived to be read in the present. It can be worth checking to see which neighbouring parishes have gaps during that period, in case they were where the marriage took place. Also, I think you are assuming the marriage date calculated from the earliest known child. But perhaps there were earlier children which you have not yet found. That would make the marriage earlier than 1641, if there were. Did Richard senior leave a will? Try PCC at the National Archives as during the Commonwealth, wills were not proved in other church courts. pwholt

[wilson8]

Great suggestions - yes, one thought I had was about the time period, and as you said regarding the Civil War. The marriage date of "1637" for Richard Ashby and Alice was on a family genealogy sheet handed down
through several generations. I have checked out (via primary sources) many of the details and have found most to be spot on. Whether this 1637 date is correct is what I am hoping to find some proof of. I do have the will of Richard Ashby Jr., born Yelvertoft, became a merchant of London (son of Richard Ashby Sr. and Alice), and in Richard Jr's will he mentions many of his family (incl. his half sisters from his mother Alice's 2nd marr. to Joseph Walton. All of the names he mentions in his will correspond to the info. we have on the family documents that have been passed down to us. I believe that I did search for Richard Sr's will but did not find one. With everyone's very helpful suggestions, I will keep searching - but, I realize that with
such an early time frame (the mid 17th century) many documents are probably either missing or are illegible to read anymore due to the fading ink and the damage that time has done to them over nearly 400 years. Thanking all here who have taken time to read my post and offer help!

[Pam Downes]

Just a bit of more info. After Richard Ashby died, his widow Alice remarried to Joseph Walton - I believe in Yelvertoft, but perhaps in a nearby village. Alice and 2nd husband Joseph Walton had several children - a bit on two of them below (just in case someone runs across these names sometime and perhaps their family tree which might list maiden name of their mother Alice - Alice's name though may just be shown as "Alice Ashby" meaning her surname by first husband Richard. Anyway, a bit of info below:

Margaret Walton (dau of Alice (nee Ball?) Ashby and 2nd husband Joseph Walton) was born circa 1660 perhaps
in West Haddon or Yelvertoft. Margaret went on to marry John Norton - born circa 1659/60 in Northamptonshire, prob in or near to Yelvertoft.

Elizabeth Walton (dau of Alice (nee Ball?) Ashby and 2nd husband Joseph Walton) born a few yrs prior or
after sister Margaret above. Elizabeth went on to marry William Prowitt - also born in Northamptonshire.

How do you know that the Alice Ashby who married Joseph Walton was the widow of Richard? In small communities it's surprising how often you find the same name. Back in the 1600s people tended to be very conservative in their choice of first names, and tended to follow the naming pattern where the first son was named after the father, second son after the grandfather, etc. I had one family where three brothers all had children they named after themselves and their brothers, and they also gave their daughters the same names. So Richard, Thomas, and William all had a Richard, Thomas, and William, plus a Rebecca and Mary. As they were often born only a year apart, and in the same place, it's a nightmare trying to sort out which son Richard married Betty Smith, and which married Emily Brown, etc. The only good thing is that if I get desperate I can send for marriage certificates because it all happened after 1837, but at £11 a certificate it gets expensive.

I very nearly came unstuck while going through the parish registers of one village for baptisms of the children of William and Mary Sharp beginning in about 1817. Found quite a few, and then there was a gap of about twenty years before I found several more. It was only later that I realised that it had to be a different family because the elder Mary would have been too old to have had the later children.
Not such a large gap between the children of Richard and Alice Ashby and those of Alice and Joseph Walton, but something you need to bear in mind.

[wilson8]

Like you, I always try to use primary sources, and not just rely on hearsay or info passed down
in the family. As one such primary doc, I ordered the Will of Richard Ashby, Jr. from The National
Archives. Richard Ashby, Jr. died in 1719, having left money for the establishment of a charity
school in Yelvertoft. He is the brother of Jane Ashby Bolton (my line). In his Will, Richard lists
how much money and/or land he is leaving to this relative or that one.

He mentions his sister Jane Ashby Bolton, his brother Thomas Ashby who was already deceased. Richard
Ashby, Jr. then goes on in his Will to mention his SISTERS Mrs. Norton, the wife of John Norton and Mrs.
Prowitt, the wife of William Prowitt. Mrs. Norton was born Margaret (nee Walton). Mrs. Prowitt was born
Elizabeth (nee Walton). For both of these younger sisters (half sisters), I have seen their baptism
records and marriage records. Margaret and Elizabeth Walton's baptism records list them as the daughters
of Joseph Walton and wife Alice. I believe Alice Ball? Ashby Walton finally died circa 1694.

Alice (nee ???) is definitely the mother of the full siblings Thomas,
Jane, and Richard Ashby,Jr. as well as the mother of their half-siblings Margaret and Elizabeth. There
may also be one or two more half-siblings, poss died young.

I have tried to verify using primary sources all of the info. on our family sheets, that's why I
would really love to find some evidence for the date of Alice's first marriage to Richard Ashby
as well as proof of her maiden name.

Appreciate everyone's help, comments, and suggestions. This may just be one brickwall that won't come down,
but I'll keep trying. Thanks again.......