canadian records

[wimsey]

if its not already known

Reginald Grieve-Woodward and Ellen Marion (Blair) had a son born 1926 (surname Grieve-Woodward)

edit - also registered with surname Woodward (in Free BMD)

edit - looks like that son died in 1929. Paul Francis Woodward aged 2.

apologies

also another son born 1925. Peter Reginald Woodward, who I believe died 1994 at Bradford.

[wimsey]

apologies

also another son born 1925. Peter Reginald Woodward, who I believe died 1994 at Bradford.

apologies again. both these sons are in public trees on Ancestry.

[Pam Downes]

I had found those children, wimsey, but didn't mention them simply because they weren't relevant to the original query. Same as what Lambert Hunt did next, and when he and Reginald Grieve Woodward died.

[Pam Downes]

Um, perhaps I shouldn't have been so dismissive pf the Woodward children after all.
I looked at the tree that wimsey found on Ancestry and see that it says Ellen Marion Blair died April 1987 in Tower Hamlets, quoting volume 14 page 869.
Not yet transcribed on FreeBMD, so I tried searching for Ellen Marion and Marion Ellen, no surname, on FMP without success.
Plan B was to see the images on FreeBMD. Tried with Grimes, Dee, Blair, and finally struck gold with Hunt.
Birthdate of 16 September 1904 doesn't match that of Marion in 1939 (hers is 29 September 1904), and the name is plain Ellen.
1939 Register has plain Ellen Hunt, wife of Frederick, living in East Ham. As East Ham is not a million miles away from Tower Hamlets, I would bet this Ellen and the one who died in 1987 are the same person.

And therefore no relation/connection to Ellen Marion Blair - or Peter Reginald Woodward.

[cynthia]

Hello Pam,

Thank you so much for your reply, everything you have mentioned in your post is correct as i have all of it.

I am now going to fill in the blanks with the rest of the story. Also thank you for pointing out the stories of the bigamous marriage on Find My Past for free, i now have those entries.

Going back to Reginald Grieve Woodward b 1901 Lancaster, parents Tom Cecil Woodward b 1868 Besford Worcs, Gertrude Emily Grieve b 1870 Manchester, Reginald died 12th June 1924 Brighton.

On the 1911 census Reginald is age 9 living at Royal Rock Hotel 1 Bedford Road Rockferry Cheshire, parents Tom Cecil Woodward age 43 Hotel Manager, Gertrude Emily Woodward age 41 states married 15 years 2 children born 2 living, Hotel Manageress, Gertrude Muriel Woodward age 10, also 11 boarders & servants

On the 1921 census Tom Cecil Woodward is age 53 states married born at Besford Worcs occupation Hotel Proprietor , living at Victoria Hotel Bastian Road Prestatyn, Wales, Gertrude Emily Woodward age 52 states married born Lancashire, Reginald Grieve Woodward age 19 occupation Motor Engineer at The Mersey Motor Co Birkenhead and a number of servants & guests

On the 11th Jan 1924 Reginald Woodward of the Royal Hotel Prestatyn age 23 Engineer leaves Liverpool on the ship Montlaurier of the Canadian Shipping line bound for St John New Brunswick Canada

Reginald Woodward age 24 described as a traveller, leaves Montreal in June 1924 on the ship Montreal of the Canadian Shipping line address given 248 Clapham Road London.

Then we have the bigamous marriage to Ellen Marion Hunt nee Blair 1924 their conviction and imprisonment for three months, then their legal remarriage in 1925.

Reginald & Ellen had 2 children, Peter Reginald Grieve Woodward b 15th June 1925 at Lambeth, MMN Blair, died 1994 Bradford age 68, he married Margaret Brannan 1950 in Bradford she was b 6th Oct 1932 Bradford

On the 1939 register Peter Reginald G Woodward b 15th June 1925 is at school, Marple Road, Stockport Cheshire

On the 1939 register Margaret/Marguerite Brannan b 6th Oct 1932 living at 22 Prospect Grove Shipley Yorks, with her family, James Brannan b 17th Oct 1899 Public Works Labourer, Edith Brannan b 8th Feb 1900 UDD, James Brannan b 8th Mar 1920 Apprentice Sheet Metal Worker, Michael Brannan b 17th Sept 1923 occupation Wool Scorer, Edith Brannan/ Mulqueen b 18th Dec 1925 , 1 closed record, Patrick brannan b 10th Sept 1930, 1 closed record & David Brannan b 10th Mar 1937.

Peter Woodward & Margaret Brannan had 1 child b 1952.

On the 1947 & 1948 Electoral Rolls Peter Woodward is living at 10 Norton Street Liverpool. a college or university???

2nd child Paul Francis Grieve Woodward b 1926 Lambeth MMN Blair died 1929 Wandsworth age 2.

On the 1927 electoral roll Reginald G Woodward is living at 27 Tregothnan Road Stockwell Lambeth, others Henry Blair, Ellen Elizabeth Blair & William Joseph Huttle .

On the 1939 register Reginald G Woodward b 6th Oct 1901 states Married occupation Foreman Motor Engineers, living at 12 Pepper Street Chester, Violet Woodward born 2nd Aug 1904 states married, UDD & 2 closed records

Violet Leathwaite was born 1904 in Chester & died 12th June 1946 Liverpool & had previously been married to
William Hawkins 1924 Chester & they had 1 daughter Daphne Violet Hawkins b 4th Sept 1925.

Reginald & Violet didn't marry until 1941 Chester but had 4 children prior to their marriage

Reginald John Derek Woodward b 28th April 1932 Chester died 1994 Chesire
Kenneth Woodward b 1934 Chester died 1934 Chester
Plus two daughters, born 1936 and 1941.

Probate Reginald G Woodward of 13 Surrenden Park Road Brighton died 12th June 1974 probate Brighton 22nd Oct £19767

Listed in the London Gazette, Reginald G Woodward, The Tarner Home, Tilbury Place, Brighton Sussex, retired Motor Engineer, died 12th June 1874, Lloyds Bank Brighton

This concludes everything i know about Reginald Grieve Woodward.

I am now getting together all my research about Ellen Marion Blair, which i will send on to you.

[Pam Downes]

Cynthia - please take care in your postings.
I've had to remove the names of three potentially living people from your Woodward post.

[cynthia]

Hello Pam,

Goodness i am so sorry, i didn't think about that,i just wanted to give you as much information as possible, thank you for helping me out.

On to Ellen Marion Blair b 29th Sept 1904 Lambeth, parents Henry Blair 1874-1941, Ellen Eliza Tickridge b 1884

Ellen Marion Blair's mother, Ellen Elizabeth Blair nee Tickridge age 68 leaves Southampton on the 7th Sept 1952 on the ship Atlantic, bound for Quebec Montreal, address 27 Tregothnan Road Stockwell London SW, states going for a holiday visit, she does end up staying in Canada

I see a record for an Ellen Hunt living with Lillian and George Allan in 1926 at 1 Mayow Rd, Lewisham. Lillian was a Blair and Nellie's aunt. I think Ellen Hunt is Nellie Blair as she was married to Reginald Grieve Woodward in 1925 and may have been going by Grimes by 1930ish, However, she was always changing her name she was Marion in 1853 but also known as Nellie.

Ellen Marion/Nellie then takes up with Frederick Charles Francis Grimes b 7th April 1907 Croydon died 1994 Wrexham Maelor Clwyd age 87

There was no marriage between Frederick & Ellen/Nellie, unless it was another bigamous one!!!

On the 1921 census Frederick Charles Grime is age 14.2 a grandson b Mitcham Surrey, states both parents alive, living at 14 Tipthorpe Road Battersea with his grandmother Emily Easom Grimes age 56.8 & his step grandfather Charles Grimes age 57.8,

Frederick Charles Francis Grimes parents are Frederick Antoni Schoel Grimes b 1st Sept 1884 Lambeth d 17th Mar 1958 Wandsworth age 73, mother Florence Louise Chapman b 25th Mar 1884 Camberwell died 1988 Surrey South West age 103

On the 1931 electoral roll Frederick Charles Francis Grimes & Eleanor Marion Grimes are living at 10 Cedars Road Clapham. must be a sort of lodging house as there are a lot of people living there.

They had 2 children and i have copies of both birth certificates, i hope i am ok mentioning them, i assume they are not living.

Details of birth for Barbara Marion Grimes b 18th Sept 1931 Clapham Wandsworth London at 10 Cedars Road Clapham, father Frederick Charles Francis Grimes occupation Commercial Traveller ( furs ) mother Eleanor Marion Grimes formerly Blair.

Nothing else found for Barbara until her marriage

Barbara Marion Grimes marriage i also have that certificate.

Details of marriage for Barbara Marion Grimes 2nd May 1949 at the parish church St Andrew Streatham London, age 17 a spinster no occupation residence 167 Woodmanstone Road SW16 father named as Thomas David Grimes
( stepfather ??) occupation Builder & Decorator, Leslie Ernest Richards age 18 a bachelor occupation Waiter residence 19 Colmer Road SW16, father Edgar James Richards occupation Railway Porter, witnesses Frederick Albert Herman & Thomas David Grimes.

Leslie's parents were Edgar James Richards b 30th Sept 1915 Bedwelty Wales & Kathleen Amelia Gill b 1908 Southwark London.

Leslie & Barbara Richards both age 19 left Liverpool on the 13th Jan 1951 on the ship Franconia of the Cunard Line, bound for Halifax Nova Scotia, address given as 21 Park hall Road, West Dulwich SE 21, his occupation Grocer, Her occupation Hairdresser.

They had a child b 1949 Battersea & he is the child who is named on the passenger list going to Canada in 1952 with his grandmother , i haven't mentioned any names here as he is possibly living , i have the copy of his birth certificate if you want any details.

Second daughter born 1936. Birth certificate and GRO Index give mother's maiden name as Blour.
This daughter may be the redacted entry on the 1939 Register.

She is on the passenger list 1952 leaving for Canada with her mother Marion Grimes.

Frederick Charles Grimes b 7th April 1907 on the 1939 register occupation Tailors & Drapery Dealers Manager, states married living at 4 Walmer Road Crosby, also on the register at the same address Elsie Grimes b 14th Aug 1914, Occupation hairdresser, Grimes is crossed out and changed to Marsh and also another name entered Elsa Mills, i haven't found anything about her at all.

Now we come to the 1939 register , i don't understand why Thomas David Dee is using the name Grimes?? b 17th Sept 1906 ( this is actually incorrect as i have a copy of his birth certificate which states he was b 17th Sept 1907 ) states he is single occupation Wharf Labourer living at 135 hale Road, Widnes lancs, Marion E Grimes b 29th Sept 1904 UDD states married?? this marriage must relate to her still being married to Reginald Woodward as he doesn't marry Violet until 1941, & 1 redacted record which maybe her younger daughter.

Thomas David Dee birth i have a copy of the certificate, b 17th Sept 1907 30 Saunby Street Garston Liverpool, Wavertree, West Derby co's of Lancaster & Liverpool, Father John Dee occupation general labourer living at 30 saunby Street Garston mother Bridget Dee formerly Burton

On the 1911 census Thomas David Dee is age 3, living at 75 Vulcan Street Garstan Lancs, parents John Dee age 30 occupation Labourer, wife Bridgit age 29 states married 5 years, 4 children b 3 living 1 died, William age 2 & Margaret age 4

On the 1921 census Thomas Dee is age born Garston Liverpool, living at 58 Raglan Road , Garston Liverpool, father John Dee age 40 born Tipperary Ireland occupation Carpenter, wife Bridgit Dee age 38 born Kingston Ireland, other Children William age 12, Margaret age 11 & John age 2.6 all born Garston Liverpool

You kindly found Thomas Grimes on the passenger list going to Canada in March 1952, so he actually left about 6 months before his wife Marion.

Now the most interesting document of all the marriage certificate for Thomas & Marion of which i have a copy.

On the marriage certificate 17th Feb 1949 the Register Office Lambeth, Thomas David Grimes otherwise Dee is age 41 a bachelor occupation Builder & Decorator living at 62 Hemberton Road SW9 father John Dee occupation Carpenter, Marion Eleanor Grimes otherwise Grieve-Woodward formerly Hunt she is age 44, states formerly the wife of Reginald Grieves-Woodward from whom she obtained a divorce, states of independent means, father Henry Blair deceased occupation Turf Accountant, witnesses Josephine Smith & Ellen E Blair ( her mother )
He signs his name as Thomas Grimes & she as Marion E Grimes.

The registrar got all the names in but in 2 colums, lovely small writing, the only name that is missing is her original name of Blair!!!

How would Thomas get a passport to travel abroad in the name of Grimes, if he had to produce his birth certificate which states his surname as DEE ??

I think i have come to the end of all i know, it would be nice if anything could be found on Canadian records, is there anywhere i could look up electoral rolls in Canada, i can't find anything on Ancestry or Find My past.

Thank you and everyone for all your help its really appreciated, look forward to hearing from you if anything is found,
Kind regards
Cynthia

PS
I might be back with more queries if i may on other people if you are not fed up with me.

[cynthia]

Hello Pam,

Did you get my last post with all the details of Ellen/Nellie Blair etc, did you have any luck with Canadian records?? Hope to hear from you ,
Kind regards Cynthia

[Pam Downes]

Hello Pam,

Did you get my last post with all the details of Ellen/Nellie Blair etc, did you have any luck with Canadian records?? Hope to hear from you ,
Kind regards Cynthia

Hi Cynthia,
What you see in this thread is what I see.
Unfortunately I'm not au fait with Canadian records that are available online.
You also have to remember that you're looking for 'recent records' the vast majority of which wouldn't be online because of Data Protection rules. About the only ones you're likely to have any luck with are deaths and burials. The biggest disadvantage being that you have no idea where the family went to after they'd arrived in Montreal.

[cynthia]

Hello Pam,

Thank you for your message and all your help, i will have to just keep on searching,
Kind regards
Cynthia