Looking for Moshe Joseph Myer Houndsditch

[phillip]

Hi Mary
I have looked at the Synagogue Scribes marriages for the 'brothers' and also what I think is your Wikitree entries on the lines. In the case of Aaron Nathan Cohen and his 2 marriages his line appears on the First American Jewish Families website which is the Stern collection Pg38. The entry has Aaron born London and this is backed up by a US Naturalisation certificate in 1841 giving his age as 64 born London living in Charleston -South Carolina record.
In the case of Jacob Nathan Cohen marriage to Rosetta Cohen in 1796 the Hebrew name for Jacob's father is Nathan KZ - KZ is the derivation of Katz a rendition of Ha Cohen.
Joseph Nathan Cohen's marriage to Sarah Cohen in 1810 gives Nathan as his father.

What we have as a commonality is the use of Nathan as a middle name by the individuals and their father also Nathan. This may suggest that their father was dead and a sign of honouring him although caution is needed because I have a similar usage in my own lines and their father was still alive.

What we lack is any data which confirms the relationships between the 'brothers'if indeed there is one. Looking at the Aaron Nathan Cohen data which suggests a London birth in 1777 if he is a brother of Isaac et al then this means his parents were living in London. We don't know about the other individuals.
The 1841 Census for Isaac does not indicate a Foreign birth but only not born in county. We don't know where he was born because he was dead by 1843.
It's a long shot but there maybe a Nathan Cohen living in London with a wife circa 1777 or earlier. If so, who was he and how do you track him down. The term General Dealer for Isaac in 1841 gives no clue as to his business or trade but Portsea and Portsmouth suggest links to the naval trade such as clothing, provisions etc but this is speculation.

A word of caution, my 5x great grandfather was Moshe Cohen but his daughter my 4x great grandmother Kitty adopted the patronymic last name Moses as per her Synagogue Marriage. I say this because I know some individuals retained the same last name of their father but others adopted patronymic names and you don't always know who relates to who!
Looking at the marriages of the Cohen 'brothers' you may have 1st cousin marriages because I note marriages between Cohen in the Synagogue Records.

By the way, Phoebe Cohen age 50 in 1841 is listed as a nurse in the household of the Isaac Emanuel family living in Southampton.

I will take a look at Nathan Cohen and Nathaniel Cohen London circa 1770s but I know names will come up but how do you link him to Isaac et al?

[phillip]

The following data links to the previous post #11 regarding Nathan Cohen father of Isaac. I have looked at various sources including JewisGen UK Data base Jewish surnames in London Registered Insurance Policies:
Aaron Nathan Cohen slop seller 4 High Street Shadwell 1810-1811 ( a slop seller is a term used to describe someone who sells clothes ( often second hand) and other provisions to navy crew.
Nathan Cohen salesman near Still Alley woolpack Alley 1813-1814; Nathan Cowhan dealer and chapman 11 Wrights Rents Little Minories 1783-Lazarus Cohen in same yard ( Cowhan is a spelling error. There are other Nathan Cohen but much later and who not fit the potential age span for a father of Isaac.
London Gazette- Nathan Levy Cohen GunSquare, Houndsditch London merchant bankrupt 30 Sept 1777
Great Synagogue London Members- Zanvil b Nathan Cohen pre 1762-3; Nathan b Lipman Cohen Amsterdam 1767-8

There are no relevant London traders listed for a Nathan Cohen for the period.

Whether or not the above Cohen relate to the father of Isaac is unknown and there are insufficient records or data to confirm any links.
Given the current lack of data it is unlikely that positive relationships can be identified and Ancestry public trees lack sufficient data to support such links.

[Maryeb]

Thank you Phillip for your research, I will detach the "Brothers" from Isaac with a note to explain

All the info was very helpfull even tho' it didn't actually prove anything, it is worth keeping for future reference.
Wishing you well and Thanks again,
Maryeb

[phillip]

Hi Mary
I have just noted an Ancestry Public family tree which records Joseph 1770-1843 married Judith Cohen and Jacob Cohen 1780-? married Rosa Benjamin as the sons of Nathan Cohen c 1745 married Catherine Tetserke/Tentskrite. The parents of Nathan are recorded as Salomon Zelig Abraham Cohen 1722-1790 born and died Amsterdam who married Marian Simon.
The daughter of Salomon is recorded as Phoebe 1741-1803 born Portsea who married Isaac Alexander.
The family tree does not include Isaac Nathan Cohen or Aaron Nathan Cohen.
Currently, I have not checked any of this data for accuracy but the reference to Phoebe being born in Portsea and a sister of Nathan is of interest but raises the question as to what evidence is there for Salomon and his wife coming to England but returning to Amsterdam where Salomon died.
I have yet to see sources and documentary evidence to confirm these relationships but thought you might be interested because it keeps options open. In addition, the line of Salomon includes his parents. If all of this data is accurate the roots of Nathan would be Dutch.

I will look further.

[Maryeb]

Thanks Phillip
That is very interesting.

[phillip]

The recurring problem tracing these lines is the failure of most researchers to submit the sources of their data beyond other people's family trees.In the case of Nathan Cohen data on the dob of his children appears to be taken from a London Tax record of 1788 for a Nathan Cohen Half Moon Alley St.Mary Whitechapel. However, there is no further proof to link him to your own Nathan Cohen and nothing which links the 1788 Nathan to the individuals named as his children. In addition, their are specific dates for the death of Salomon Zelig Abraham Cohen 1722-1790 and that of his wife Marianne ( in the family trees her last name is recorded as Simon and in others Bomburg). These precise dates suggest a Dutch record but I have yet to locate these because again the family trees give no sources.

Missing from the trees is the link to Isaac Cohen as a son of these Nathan Chen/Catherine. How to prove that Isaac was born in London and is the son of Nathan/Catherine??

You might want to keep these names on file. The Dutch Jewish records often provide a lot more data than the English equivalents.I would like to see if the Dutch records list Salomon and his wife plus children. These Salomon all appear to be born in the Netherlands with a couple of exceptions but no evidence to confirm that this is true.
The Society of Genealogists in London have the Hyamson and Collyer Fergusson Anglo Jewish family trees and there maybe a record on the lines. Similarly, the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain library holds several thousand family trees including numerous Cohen and others but a visit would be required to identify whether or not the right Cohen et al records were held.

I will also check on JewishGen family trees data base but again many trees are not well documented.

I was hoping to see if Will Extracts contained any family relationships but so far nothing to link them to your people. One point to note- Phoebe Cohen a sister of Nathan married Rabbi Isaac Alexander - she is supposed to have been born Fratton,Portsmouth and died 1803 ( this early date limits the chances of identifying where she was born).
I am still looking.

[Maryeb]

Sorry I'm late getting back to you Phillip it's been a bit hetic here! Thanks for your ongoing research. I have been looking for a long time, but don't have the resources I imagine you have, I really appreciate it. Thanks
Maryeb

[phillip]

I am not sure I can add any further details to the early data you are searching for. You already have recorded a lot of information on the lines with sources. Here are a few records from the Jewish Chronicle which confirm and may add a little more information.
Death- SARAH FRANCIS YOELL 19.5.1869 at Salisbury, beloved daughter of the late Abraham Yoell of Southsea,in the 53rd year of her age...
Marriage- Portsea Synagogue 18.5.1862 second daughter of Abraham Yoell of Portsea-CAROLINE YOELL to EDWARD LOWE of Cheltenham
Death-28.9.1867 ABRAHM YOELL at 8 Landport Terrace,Southsea aged 84 ...
Death-AMELIA YOELL at 8 Landport Terrace,Southsea age 88,23.2.1875 relict of Abraham Yoell formerly of Queen Street, Portsea
Marriage-DORA ALICE JACOBS 5.3.1879 AT 6 Ashking Villas,Cheltenham residence of the brides uncle EDWARD LOWE, younger daughter of the late MR AND MRS ISAAC JACOBS of New York and granddaughter of the late MR AND MRS A YOELL of Portsea, to BARNETT BROADY of Westhartlepool.

I will try and fill in more pieces. They all help to confirm relationships.

[Maryeb]

Thank you again Phillip you have helped enormously with some of my lesser known relations, the Yeoll's also the burial place of Amelia Samuels, I had found Morris through Ancestry even tho' I'm only a free member.
From a photo Morris's grave only has his name on it not even his Hebrew name, sadly.
If you manage to find anything else, I would be glad to hear it.
Thank you,
Maryeb

[phillip]

There are numbers of Broady newspaper records in the Jewish Chronicle archives which you may find useful. See Cemetery Scribes ID 5291 for the Burial Record and tombstone of Dora Alice Jacobs who married Barnett Broady.
The records include those of Israel Broady and his wife plus children.
Here are some records which may or may not be relevant to your lines but refer to Broady-Marriage 14 March at the Synagogue West Hartlepool EMILY KAUFMAN granddaughter of Mr and Mrs Broady,54 Scarboro Street West Hartlepool to HARRY LYONS of Blains, Mons
JC March 23,1894
Death- Friday 23 March,1894 at Buxton House, Walter Road,Swansea SARA LYONS ( relict of the late Lewis Lyons and mother of Mrs Jack Broady, West Hartlepool, in the 65th year of her age.

If you are interested in these lines let me know and I will post data.