Belfast will probate question 1899

[Mary Anne]

I have a question about Probate abstracts that appear in Ireland, Scotland and England Calendars. Eliza NIVEN, died 16 June 1899 in Lambeg, Lambeg Parish, County Down, wrote a will dated 11 February 1898 (I have copy). Probate appears to have been thus:

1) 18 September 1899: published abstract indicates probate granted at Belfast to Richard NIVEN the testator's son (as in Ireland Wills and Admins Calendar); Effects valued at £4744 3s 6d.

2) 31 October 1899: published abstract (as in Scotland Calendar of Confirmations and Inventories) indicates "Certificate endorsed by Commissary Clerk of Edinburgh, 31 October on Probate of the Will, granted at Belfast on 18 September 1899, to Richard Niven"; Effects valued at £4744 3s 6d.

3) 4 November 1899: published abstract (as in England Probate Calendar) indicates "Probate Belfast to Richard Niven merchant Sealed London 4 November Effects £68 15s in England".

Questions:

1) Were probates processed in each court (England, Ireland and Scotland) because deceased had property in all jurisdictions? (Son Richard lived in Lambeg also at the time);

2) why is the effects amount different for the England probate? Does this reflect different money values? or does the England probate perhaps indicate that disbursement had already been made by November?

Thank you to anyone who can shed light.


Mary Anne

[Peter Goodey]

Were probates processed in each court (England, Ireland and Scotland) because deceased had property in all jurisdictions?

I would guess so. A bank (say) in England would need probate sealed by an English court.

why is the effects amount different for the England probate? Does this reflect different money values? or does the England probate perhaps indicate that disbursement had already been made by November?

The wording is "Effects £68 15s in England" That surely means what it says - £68 15s in England and the remainder elsewhere. The value of the estate elsewhere would be of no interest to a court in England.

[arthurk]

Just to clarify a little: Ireland, Scotland and England were (and are) separate jurisdictions for probate purposes. However, the arrangements are such that a probate in one can be accepted in one of the others by the process known as sealing, instead of a further grant of probate. (Although the Scottish entry doesn't use the term 'sealing', this is surely what is meant.)

I recently learnt that the English probate registry keeps papers relating to a sealing for 50 years (I had thought they didn't keep much more than an index), so in this case there won't be much point in applying for any English paperwork. I don't know what papers would be kept in Scotland, though the index at Scotland's People usually gives some idea of what's available.

You didn't mention having seen it, but since Eliza lived in what is now Northern Ireland, a copy of the will itself can be seen for free on the NI Direct website:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services...will-calendars

[Mary Anne]

Thank you, Arthur, for the clarification, That is kind of what I thought.

And, yes, thank you, I did get the will for Eliza.

Mary Anne

[Mary Anne]

Thank you, Peter Goodey, this is what I had thought, but wasn't sure.

Mary Anne