Troth + Unknown - Bromsgrove, Worcestershire

[trothseeker]

Aaaargh! researching Troths around Bromsgrove is a nightmare! These are my great-great-grandparents (my paternal grandfather's grandparents) and it would
great to be able to confirm more details around them and their ancestors, and also very interested in information about their son, Harold...

Lived in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire (not really a surprise - it seems to be the Troth heartland!)
I have not been able to find if or when they were married.

David Troth (b. Circa 1855)
+
Emma (unknown surname) (b. Circa 1855)

They had the following children:
Edwin (b. Circa 1877) - male
Charles (b. Circa 1879) - male
Jesse(?) (b. Circa 1881) - male
David (b. Circa 1884) - male
Mary A (b. Circa 1888) - female
Harold (b. 1890) - male (this is my great-grandfather)
Ernest (b. Circa 1892) - male
Sydney (b. Circa 1893) - male
Clara (b. Circa 1895) - female

Most of this info I pulled from the 1881, 1891, 1901 & 1911 Censuses. It's a bad habit but I made a leap of faith when reading the 1891 Census as it puts Harold in two places - I assumed this was a census error, but it may be two different Harolds. The reasons I thought they were the same Harold were:
1. The proximity of the addresses, both Sidemoor, Bromsgrove.
2. Both Harolds were shown as being 1 year old.
3a. One household head is Walter with daughter Emma and grandson Harold
3b. One household head is David with wife Emma and son Harold
If anyone can help with this tangle I may have climbed into then that would be great! The Harold I am interested in married Annie Elizabeth Hughes (1892-1972) in 1912 and had these children; Doris (1913-2004), Leslie (1915-1998), Hilda (1918-2000) and Maurice (1917-1998). Maurice was my grandfather, he apparently fell out with his family when he was young and so we never met or knew anything about them.

[Sue Mackay]

Ancestry shows a marriage between David Troth and Emma Woodward in Bromsgrove on 14 August 1874

[Lesley Robertson]

To me, proximity like that suggests that the men are related.
Consider a man called Kermit with 4 sons. When the boys grow and marry, they each have a son. Thanks to naming tradition, when each son produced sons, each would call one of them Kermit. And so on.. within a couple of generations you have a forename that is locally common, but otherwise rare,,,
I managed to track a highland family over a few generations because an early 18th century soldier married an Englishwoman called Barbara (an uncommon name in Scotland, and took her home tone Highlands… Of course, once found it all needs to be verified!

[christanel]

Ancestry shows a marriage between David Troth and Emma Woodward in Bromsgrove on 14 August 1874

On the GRO index the daughter Clara, has the mother's maiden name as Woodward.
March 1/4 1895 registration district Bromsgrove, vol 8c page 404.
Edwin the first child on the list also has mmn Woodward. June 1/4 1876 Bromsgrove vol 6c page 424
You can check the other births on the GRO index which is free but you have to sign up.
There is only one Harold 1890 +/- 2 years. June 1/4 1889 Bromsgrove mmn Woodward vol
6c page 402
Christina

[Pamelawagster]

The children listed in your post all have MMN - Woodward on their birth registration.

Harold Troth 1889 J Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 402 MMN- Woodward.

Do you have the marraige cert of Harold & Annie Elizabeth Hughes? This should name his father.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Rob,

As usual, while I have been s-l-o-w-l-y typing, others have given you information. But I will tell you how they found it.

In conjunction with the census you also need to use these two sites.
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp

The first one is still a work in progress but is almost complete until 1983, and is a free-to-use transcription of the GRO Index which records civil BMD from 1 July 1837.
The first Index didn't record mother's maiden name for births until September quarter 1911, nor ages at death until 1866. The GRO then began re-indexing the index, including these omissions, and also adding newer entries from about 2006 onwards which had not been available to the general public. Unfortunately, the re-indexing stopped before they could get round to adding marriages which is why you only find births and deaths to search on the GRO site, and you need to be aware that there is a gap between 1934 and 1984 for births and 1957 to 1984 for deaths.

Once you have the mother's maiden name, it's much easier to find a marriage - in this case for David and Ellen. Though a word of warning. Check the mother's maiden names for all of the children. I had one example where the mother of the first few children died and the father remarried to someone with the same first name as his first wife so come the next census, apart from his wife's age being a few years out, nothing had changed. Except that when you checked the younger children their mother's maiden name was Jones, not Wison.

[christanel]

There is a Harold Troth age 12 with parents Walter 59 carpenter's labourer and Harriet 57 on the 1901 census at Mary vale Rd King's Norton Worcestershire which couold be your second Harold. Atree on ancestry has the birth registration I gave for him which is clearly wrong unless Harriet is also a Woodward before marriage.
Christina

[christanel]

Walter Troth married Harriet Dyers June 1/4 1863 registration district Bromsgrove vol 6c page 561
I can't see a birth reg for their son Harold c1889 but there is one for a Jack Troth 1887 mmn Dyer and another for a Samuel Troth mmn Dyer 1890.
Christina

[christanel]

There is a Bertie Harold Troth birth registered Bromsgrove Sept 1/4 1889 but there is no mother's maiden name given which usually indicates illegitimacy. I wonder if he could be the son of one of Walter's and Harriet's daughters and they listed him as their son in the censuses to protect reputations?
I think it could be so as he served in WW1 as Bertie Harold Troth and in his service record gives his next of kin as mother Harriet. So sometimes he is known as Harold and in official army record as Bertie.
There is also a Harold Troth who died in WW1 24 Dec 1917 age 22 son of Joseph and Emily Troth.
Christina

[christanel]

The name Edwin Troth seems to run in your family. You have David with his brother Edwin in the 1881 census. Now Harold's brother Edwin joined the army and his pension record says he fought in South Africa 1899 to 1902.
It shows a list of his movements up to 1912. It is 'your' Edwin as he gives his parent's names and his brother Charles and sisters Mary and Clara.
David's birth registration on the GRO index does not give a mother's maiden name so it would seem he was also illegitimate. David Troth March 1/4 1855 Bromsgrove Union vol 6c page 367.
But on his marriage to Emma Woodward he names his father as James Troth. Did he invent a father to keep up appearances.

England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
David Troth Age 18
Birth Date c1856
Marriage Date: 15 Aug 1874
Marriage Place: Bromsgrove, Worcester, England
Father - James Troth
Spouse - Emma Woodward
FHL Film -321131 Reference ID 84
Christina