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  1. #1

    Default James Brown c1910-c1950

    Hi! I'm new to these forums and thought I'd try posting a brick wall that's been driving me mad for the past 6 months in hopes I might actually break it.

    I've been trying to find information on my Great Grandfather who went by the name of Jim Brown. He might have legally been named James Brown, as a marriage record I have found between him and my Great Grandmother Linda Morris places them as getting married in Q4 1944 in Birmingham. Sadly that's where concrete information ends.

    From what my Mum knows, Jim was a traveller from Ireland. He died of a heart attack in his mid 40's when my Nan was young and from there I've figured that to make much sense that would have to place his birth year around 1910 and his death in the 1950's. He was apparently a Canal worker in Leeds.

    I've also been told about a Brown Street in Leeds where they lived, which was dubbed that as most of the Brown family lived there. A strange lead as to where Brown Street was is that my Nan knew Jimmy Savile as his mum's house was relatively nearby. The whole area which was council tenements has been demolished now apparently.

    He may have had multiple partners while he was alive as apparently he moved in to another house with a different family. This adds a lot of confusion, especially as a DNA match that I have has reached out to me regarding this person, although the dates don't line up with what I have been told. Could have had a son by the same name?

    His Wife Linda was born 1924 in Kings Norton, Birmingham. She died in 1984 in Birmingham.

  2. #2
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    Do you have copy of his marriage certificate? That would give his age, or what he claimed it to be, his occupation, and hopefully the name and occupation of his father. This would all be information supplied by him, without the requirement to provide any supporting evidence so cannot be relied upon to be strictly accurate but it could give a starting point for further research. It is just possible that the witnesses could provide additional information.

  3. #3

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    I don't have the marriage certificate, but I can order it. Hopefully that'll shed some light on this!

  4. #4

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    Have you tried the 1939 “census”. It should not only give his occupation, age, etc, it should also tell you who was living with, if there was another family.

  5. #5

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    I have looked in the past but as it's such a common name trying to figure out who might be the right guy has been difficult especially as the census was taken before he got married to Linda. Could have a deep dive tonight to see if anything stands out.

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    are we thinking he died in Leeds ?

    if I confine myself to any James Brown born 1905-15, died 1950-60, I can only find one with a death registration specifically in Leeds (James P Brown 1907-1956), but a few others in other parts of Yorkshire.

    on the 1939 register James Patrick Brown is at 70 York House, Leeds (and is a "public works labourer")

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimsey View Post
    are we thinking he died in Leeds ?

    if I confine myself to any James Brown born 1905-15, died 1950-60, I can only find one with a death registration specifically in Leeds (James P Brown 1907-1956), but a few others in other parts of Yorkshire.

    on the 1939 register James Patrick Brown is at 70 York House, Leeds (and is a "public works labourer")
    but I can't find an Irish birth registration for him

    and aged 49 is not "mid-40s" of course

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by wimsey View Post
    on the 1939 register James Patrick Brown is at 70 York House, Leeds (and is a "public works labourer")
    Did come across this one last night and had a bit of a further look into it. 1911 census places him at the age of 3 in 18 Lemon Street, Leeds, with his father James Patrick Brown (34) and mother Elizabeth Ann Brown (31). Census shows they had 3 children - two alive and one dead at the time of the census being taken. Would place him as born in York, mother in Knaresborough, Yorkshire. James Patrick Brown sr has their street of birth listed but is ineligible, however clearly shows Leeds, Yorkshire. Father also has Roman Catholic Born in England as his nationality - potential hint towards Irish roots or am I understanding that wrong?

    Interesting thing about Lemon Street is that fits the general description I've been given of the place - council properties that the Irish settled in to that was then demolished. Could be a coincidence. Also goes against other information regarding general location and doesn't fully explain close links to Ireland - especially as Linda has told my Mum in the past stories about them going to Ireland to see the rest of the Brown family and them getting checked by the IRA. Also wouldn't fit depending on when they were demolished, but it's possible the Brown Family resituated. Another confusion I didn't even take into account is the marriage and my Nan's birth being in Birmingham.

    It's a candidate for now. Fingers crossed the Marriage Certificate sheds some light on this, although might not arrive until mid February.

  9. #9

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    Contacted the Local and Family History Department in Leeds yesterday, and they got back to me today. Interestingly, Brown Street WAS a real street. It was in the East of the City, in an area known as the Bank. A large portion of the Irish community lived in that area. However, it was demolished by the 50's. They've also given me a map from 1891 of the area to show exactly where it was. It was also not near where we thought it was, in the West of the City.

    A potential lead is to search the 1950 electoral register in Leeds. It's a bit of a trek from where I live (3 hours away by train) but is doable. Searching the Brown Street area in the electoral register could show if he was there in the 50's and registered to vote.

    Having my Nan's Birth Certificate could also be helpful in this search. Will try to get that ordered as well, but will be another physical certificate so that won't arrive for a while.

  10. #10

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    The marriage certificate has finally arrived for James and Linda, however it's added a lot of confusion.

    He was married on December 16th 1944, and was 23 at the time. This pulls his expected age forward by 11 years, and means that if he did die when my Nan was around 10 then he would have died very young - 34.

    I cannot read what his profession is - it looks like CM Shnayer? It means nothing to me.

    His residence is also hard to make out, but it looks like "4 back of 74 Irving Street [?]". The last section I cannot make out at all, however it is the same as the end of Linda's address of "1 back 302 Bell Barn Road [?]". Both are streets in Birmingham, so it's safe to assume that these are the streets in Birmingham. Also considering the marriage was at the Church of St Catherine of Siena in Birmingham which is also on Irving Street it's a safe bet.

    Father's name is Robert Brown, who was deceased at the time of marriage. Witnesses don't shine much light - marriage was in the presence of Hilda Annie Morris who is Linda's sister, and someone called James Roche.

    And that's the update. Birth Certificate for my Nan never arrived, and was refunded by GRO as they couldn't find it apparently. Will have to see if one of my aunt's have a copy. It also raises a question in my mind: why wasn't he drafted into the war? He would have been around 18 at the time of the draft. Is there something I'm missing there?

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