Lewis Williams immigrant to Canada, c1817

[Mary Anne]

Hello, fellow researchers!

I am currently on a mission regarding Lewis WILLIAMS (c1770-c1824) who immigrated to Upper Canada circa 1817. I am trying to reconcile some reported "facts", and see if I can find any further information about his baptism, etc. and that of his wife.

Factual information that I have found is that he and his wife and 4 children travelled from Wales aboard the "Thomas and Mary". He was granted Crown land in Upper Canada, and the Land Grant transcriptions notes a date of 2 October 1817 that I assume pertains to the ship's arrival in Quebec. The entry also notes that they "located Jan. 31, 1818, Napean on Rideau, Concession C". So far so good -- he had roughly 200 acres on the Rideau River in Nepean Township, Upper Canada. This I know from local history.

Other information that I have that has no sources cited, is what I would like to verify:

1) Lewis WILLIAMS was born in Monmouthshire, Wales, OR was a "country squire in Cardiff";

2) the ship "Thomas and Mary" left from Pontypool, possibly around the beginning of July 1817;

2) Lewis WILLIAMS was married to "Lady Mary Phillips" (c1787-c1821), who was reportedly the daughter of "the Earl of Phillips" whose "gardener" Lewis was supposed to have been.

SO, I am really trying to figure out where in Wales Lewis WILLIAMS was from, to see if I can find his baptism. Same for his wife "Lady Mary Phillips". Also trying to figure out who Lady Mary's father can have been, because I am pretty sure that "Earl of Phillips" was not his title (if he had one) -- would he not have been something like "Sir Somebody Phillips, Earl of Someplace"? I can find a Philipps (different spelling) family that were Baronets of Picton Castle in Pembrokeshire, but no daughter Mary who looks likely (at least not in The Peerage).

The information that I have for now is from several "popular" articles posted online, or featured in the Ottawa Journal of the 1970s. These seem to contain these somewhat romanticized details.

Thank you


Mary Anne
Prince Edward County, Ontario

[christanel]

Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums

Just to try and get us started on your puzzle I found the children of Lewis Williams and Mary listed as follows at this link on familysearch.org.

1. Eldest son Lewis Jr. (1807-1875) married Orilla Healy (1817-1900), born in the USA and the daughter of a saddlebag preacher, in 1836. They remained on the farm and raised 13 children.
2. Eldest daughter Elizabeth (1809) eloped in 1826 and was promptly listed in the family bible as having died.
3. John (1811-1898)
4. William (1813-1837) who died as a young man,
5. Mary (1815-1903) who married John Frost and moved to Owen Sound.
6. Henry (1818-1898) eventually settled north of Long Island near Manotick. There was also
7. In 1821 the youngest son Thomas died in infancy followed a few months later by his mother Lady Mary.

From this list Lewis jnr 1807, Elizabeth 1809, John 1811, William 1813 and Mary 1815 were born in the UK. The last two Henry 1818 and Thomas were born in Canada.
Now to see what baptisms there are that may give us some clues. I know that you have the above info but more sets of fresh eyes may help.
Christina

[Mary Anne]

Christanel

Yes, thank you for this -- this is indeed the family I am referring to. And this article you are quoting from is one of the ones I referred to in this statement. It is from the "History of Ottawa East" webpage; it repeats some of the "Earl of Phillips" speculation(with no source citations) :

"The information that I have for now is from several "popular" articles posted online, or featured in the Ottawa Journal of the 1970s. These seem to contain these somewhat romanticized details."

I am trying to follow up and confirm this Canada info (and have done for at least some of it). Meantime, I am interested in going back from the original Lewis WILLIAMS (aka "Louis WILLIAMS").

FYI, there were at least 3 Lewis WILLIAMS's

1) Lewis WILLIAMS, the immigrant, reportedly born in Wales(?) circa 1770, married Mary PHILLIPS, reportedly born circa 1787, and said to be daughter of "Earl of Phillips";

2) Lewis WILLIAMS, their son, reportedly born in Wales(?) circa 1806-1807, married Orella HEALEY, reportedly born New York State, circa 1816;

3) Lewis WILLIAMS, Lewis and Orella's son, born in Upper Canada, 16 February 1845 (baptism document obtained), married Mary ?.


Mary Anne

[Megan Roberts]

2) the ship "Thomas and Mary" left from Pontypool, possibly around the beginning of July 1817;

I do not that this is true, because if you look at Pontypool on a map it is not on the coast. It is possible that they took a boat down river to Newport, which was a very busy port.

Two links below:

History of Pontypool
https://www.torfaenmuseum.org.uk/thi/...-of-pontypool/

History of Newport
https://www.newport.gov.uk/en/About-...0Chartists.%20

[helachau]

I do not that this is true, because if you look at Pontypool on a map it is not on the coast. It is possible that they took a boat down river to Newport, which was a very busy port.

Megan,
Agreed - sailing from Pontypool a non starter.
Have been chasing any reference to a "Thomas and Mary" sailing for Canada around 1817. I can find at least 4 ships/boats called "Thomas and Mary" (Lloyds Lists/newspapers) at this period but none headed in the right direction.
Canada Archives has very few passenger list references for 1817.

[Mary Anne]

Megan,
Agreed - sailing from Pontypool a non starter.
Have been chasing any reference to a "Thomas and Mary" sailing for Canada around 1817. I can find at least 4 ships/boats called "Thomas and Mary" (Lloyds Lists/newspapers) at this period but none headed in the right direction.
Canada Archives has very few passenger list references for 1817.

Thank you both, I wondered about that. This is quoted from one of the "popular", and somewhat romanticized, later accounts. I think they have conflated a bunch of info, and invented more. Difficulty is, being "popular" accounts, they have very few credible source citations. I have no idea where the Pontypool reference comes from. The Land Grant entry (which, although a transcription, is more credible) only says they came from "Wales", mentions the ship's name, and the two dates, 2 October 1817 and 31 January 1818.

The only "Thomas and Mary" I can find in that very early timeframe was wrecked in 1816 off Norway! Just now looked on The Ships List and Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild, and find nothing.


Mary Anne

[pwholt]

Have you tried to locate obituaries for the children of Lewis? These can be quite full of information which is helpful, even if they don't answer the questions you originally sought. For example, my great grandmother's obit of 1914 says that the only father she knew was John Graham, and her late husband's obit of 1904 mentioned his wife as being a daughter of Alexander Reid of Schomberg. In themselves not much of a clue, but Schomberg is near Newmarket, and there was a John Graham who had a variety store there, and an Alexander Reid who died circa 1836 at East Gwillimbury. John's wife Sarah claimed dower rights to land through her late husband Alexander Reid, and so I got the evidence I needed, just from two tiny clues which do not appear elsewhere in the records. So, it can be worth going after as many obituaries as you can find for the family. pwholt

[Mary Anne]

Have you tried to locate obituaries for the children of Lewis? These can be quite full of information which is helpful, even if they don't answer the questions you originally sought. For example, my great grandmother's obit of 1914 says that the only father she knew was John Graham, and her late husband's obit of 1904 mentioned his wife as being a daughter of Alexander Reid of Schomberg. In themselves not much of a clue, but Schomberg is near Newmarket, and there was a John Graham who had a variety store there, and an Alexander Reid who died circa 1836 at East Gwillimbury. John's wife Sarah claimed dower rights to land through her late husband Alexander Reid, and so I got the evidence I needed, just from two tiny clues which do not appear elsewhere in the records. So, it can be worth going after as many obituaries as you can find for the family. pwholt

Yes, thank you, I am trying to look into those things here, on the Canada side, as I said. Wanting to be somewhat cautious, however, as I think there are probably quite a few "embellishments" that have certainly made it into the three modern accounts that I have quoted above. Trying to sift the facts from the fairy tales.

Mary Anne

[Mary Anne]

So, I have been down the parish registers rabbit hole at Find My Past. I have found 3 baptisms for my Lewis WILLIAMS' (born 1806-1807) siblings at Penmaen Independent Chapel in Monithusloyne (Mynyddislwyn), Monmouth:

Elizabeth, baptized 1809;
John, baptized 1811; and
William, baptized 1813.

But, no Lewis WILLIAMS baptism, circa 1806-7. And no indication of any marriage (Independent or otherwise) between his purported parents, Lewis WILLIAMS (b. circa 1770) and Mary Phillips, "daughter of Earl Phillips" that I can find in Monmouthshire. Any thoughts?


Mary Anne

[grisel]

So, I have been down the parish registers rabbit hole at Find My Past. I have found 3 baptisms for my Lewis WILLIAMS' (born 1806-1807) siblings at Penmaen Independent Chapel in Monithusloyne (Mynyddislwyn), Monmouth:

Elizabeth, baptized 1809;
John, baptized 1811; and
William, baptized 1813.

But, no Lewis WILLIAMS baptism, circa 1806-7. And no indication of any marriage (Independent or otherwise) between his purported parents, Lewis WILLIAMS (b. circa 1770) and Mary Phillips, "daughter of Earl Phillips" that I can find in Monmouthshire. Any thoughts?


Mary Anne

Have you checked the Family search record of a marriage bond for a Lewis Williams and a Mary Phillips in 1807 in Llandaff? Original held at National Library of Wales.
Mary's father recorded as John Phillips by FS.