Patrick Savage

[Terry59]

Please, I need some help with Patrick Savage, who was born in Ireland. All the documents I see, his date of birth seems to swing about. He moved to England and married Mary Murray 4.1.1850 at St Gregory's Chapel, Whitehaven, Cumberland. He was the Father of William John, born 11.7.1860 in Cleator, Cumberland. William died 22.8.1936. I have a copy of Patrick's marriage cert, which states that his Father was Patrick Sands and Mary Murray was the daughter of Richard Murray.
I have a copy of Patrick's death certificate, witnessed by his son, William John but again the dates do not add up. He died at 3Borwick Rails, Millom, Cumberland. I have turned the house upside down, trying to find this but so far without success.
Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

[almach]

Hi Terry and welcome to Brit-Gen.

All the documents I see, his date of birth seems to swing about.

His date of birth seems to be consistent on the census returns 1851 - 1891 which say born 1820. However, his death in the index has his age as 61 or born 1830, I wonder if 1820 was written, but misread as 1830. What age is on his marriage cert?

I have a copy of Patrick's marriage cert, which states that his Father was Patrick Sands

What is entered as the occupation for Patrick's father, is SANDS the surname or is he Patrick Sands SAVAGE? Who witnessed the marriage?

[Pam Downes]

I presume you're talking about the Patrick Savage whose death was registered in June quarter 1891, Bootle registration district, and his age was given as 61.

Tracing him back through the census, that is the only discrepancy I can find, and I can only assume that his son simply got his age wrong when registering the death. (Believe or not,I think my son would struggle to get my date of birth correct.) Might have been a case of John knowing that Patrick was born in 1820, but then making a mistake in doing the maths of 1891 minus 1820, and saying 61 instead of 71.

The census consistently put Patrick's year of birth as 1820, +/- a year.

1891 - aged 71. Census reference RG12/4322 folio 16 page 26
1881 - aged 62. Census reference RG11/5196 folio 71 page 20
1871 - aged 51. Census reference RG10/5267 folio 54 page 43
1861 - aged 41. Census reference RG9/3951 folio 71 page 29
1851 - aged 31. Census reference HO107/2437 folio 294 page 17

I think you may safely assume that Patrick was born circa 1820.

Pam
who types a lot slower than Alma does.

[grisel]

Hi Terry

On the wedding cert does it mention if his father is alive or dead and does it give his father's occupation?

Sorry I see Alma has already asked that question!

[Terry59]

The date on the marriage cert is 4.1.1850. It states Patrick's age as 29 and Mary Murray as "of full age". Patrick Sands occupation is Mariner. Mary's Father is Richard Murray, both living. It was witnessed by Silvester McAvoy and Ann Murray.
Many thanks for all your help

[Terry59]

Looking in to things, Patrick's son William John Savage married Elizabeth Hillen. Her paternal Grandmother was Catherine McAvoy, a McAvoy was one of the witnesses to Patrick's marriage.

[Pam Downes]

The date on the marriage cert is 4.1.1850. It states Patrick's age as 29 and Mary Murray as "of full age". Patrick Sands occupation is Mariner. Mary's Father is Richard Murray, both living. It was witnessed by Silvester McAvoy and Ann Murray.
Many thanks for all your help

Which fits the birth year of 1820, found on all but one of the census.

[helachau]

A very warm welcome to Brit-gen.
Have found several references to Patrick Savage in his career as a beerhouse keeper at Cleaton Moor and Millom (1861-1873) and an inn keeper at the Ship Inn, Millom (1873-1878). His link to the licensing trade ended in 1878 when he was declared bankrupt.
I also checked the catalogue of Cumberland Archives but drew a blank.
Sadly, can find nothing that might give a clue to his place of birth in Ireland.

[Pam Downes]

A very warm welcome to Brit-gen.
Have found several references to Patrick Savage in his career as a beerhouse keeper at Cleaton Moor and Millom (1861-1873) and an inn keeper at the Ship Inn, Millom (1873-1878). His link to the licensing trade ended in 1878 when he was declared bankrupt.
I also checked the catalogue of Cumberland Archives but drew a blank.
Sadly, can find nothing that might give a clue to his place of birth in Ireland.

Ooh, that's interesting.
I was going to say 'wrong Patrick' because I know that there's more than one of them around, and on the 1871 census 'our' Patrick' is described as labourer, blast furnesses (sic)
Went back to the 1861 census which says blast furnace keeper and then underneath 'and beer housekeeper'.
Memo to self: read all of the print.

Pam

[helachau]

Took time over unpicking the various Patrick Savages in that locale before posting.
I liked the first newspaper snippet in '61 where he is in court for serving beer at twenty minutes past nine on a Sunday morning. Story was he was in bed after a night shift, his wife was ill and 'twas the kids that done it!