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  1. #1
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    Default Marriage Scotland 1764

    I have a marriage record for a couple, married in Bowden, Roxburghshire, 14 June 1764, her age 10, born 25 December 1753, his age 15, born Feb 1749. Their first child was born in 1771.
    The record I have is for payment of 00 14 00 perhaps shillings from him and her both of this parish before proclamation.

    Somewhere I have seen this statement.
    'Law stated that if the couple cohabited after puberty this gave legitimacy to the marriage'
    I'm looking for a source that explains marriage of underage girls in Scotland, what rules there were, plus how and why such a marriage would have been organised/ arranged, what were the benefits of a marriage at that age.
    How common was this practice?
    I have found no evidence that either of the couple belonged to a wealthy or influential family.
    Any explanations would be marvelous!

  2. #2
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    This article from Glasgow University indicates that until 1929, the minimum legal age for a girl to marry in Scotland was 12. (See section on Gretna Green marriages).

    https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/social...eath/marriage/


    00 14 00 does look like 14 shillings. (Ie No pounds, 14 shillings and no pence, or 14/- as we generally used to write it).
    ELWYN

  3. #3

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    I've taken a look at the Kirk Session for Bowden (available now on Scotlands People). The Session always took notice of anything they considered irregular in their parish. The only entries for 1764 are for Jan 9th (irrelevant) and two entries for 8 and 22 July, and covering the marriage of Margaret Davidson & William Thorburn who had been married irregularly (this is not the 21st century meaning, it means that they were married by someone not ordained in the Kirk, and not in the Kirk - eg Gretna Green marriages - in short, a civil marriage). They called them in, when they produced a certificate dated May of that year and were told it was irregular. After "paying their dues", the Session and have their Communion before the Harvest.
    The next entry is April 1765.

    If this was not the couple referred to in #1, that marriage must have been considered normal to be recorded by the Kirk. I have my doubts as the Thorburn/Davidson marriage is recorded in August. However, different dates can be recorded on different dates depending on whether the record is based on the Banns or marriage ceremony.

    There was little legal control of marriage in Scotland in the 19th century and before. If a couple lived as a married couple in "respectable company" (such as a respectable hotel), they were treated as legally married. There's all sorts of court cases about it.

    PS I've left the above as of possible interest but have found an entry for another couple, John Mabbon and Betty Mabbon, on 14 June. That marriage had not been discussed by the Kirk Session.

    BTW iT's much easier to help if you have the names of the people involved.

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    Thanks Lesley,
    I was thinking this was more of a general question.
    The marriage of John and Betty Mabbon/Maibon is the marriage that is of interest. I have the marriage record from Scotland's people.
    I also have I believe her baptism record daughter of John Mabane and Mary Depa(?) dated 25 Dec 1753 at Kelso.
    Baptism records for their 4 children, Margaret, Thomas, James,and John Mabon. The Baptisms for the children are all entered on the same page each one following the others even though the birth and baptism dates range from 1771-1782. The children are recorded in the baptism records of Rev, Mr Andrew Arnot at Midlem, Bowden.

  5. #5
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    Thanks Elwyn, I grew up in England before decimal currency so 14/ is very familiar.

  6. #6

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    Scotland's Church records vary a great deal, not only because of poor survival, but also because what happened in a parish was up to the Minister... He decided what would be recorded, for example. Some baptism records only include the name of the Father, some are rich in information including both parents, godparents, and even who the child was named after... I have a marriage entry that only names the groom! These pages with all the children listed together are fairly common. I know that for Whitsome, the parish for which I have a One Place Study, this happened when a new Minister came in after the very elderly previous Minister died. He'd obviously been lax in his record keeping, and the new guy seems to have been playing catch-up as new children were born, and families brought their other baptism certificates. Of course this means that there's a number of baptised children with no entries as they were the last in their family.

    I wonder when Rev Arnott took the parish over...

    This is the sort of case when transcriptions won't do - you need to see the changes in the handwriting!

  7. #7

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    Interesting... I decided to look Rev Arnott up in the Parish Histories of the Church of Scotland, known as Fasti. Not only is he not listed for Bowden, he's not listed for any of the surrounding parishes.. I haven't found him yet, but the Gazetteer for Scotland (1843) says that Midlem (in the parish of Bowden) includes a "place of worship of the Associate Synod of Original Seceders".

    This is where we come to possibilities rather than facts. Splitting and counter-splitting the churches was almost a national sport in Scotland back then. At some times, people could be prosecuted for membership of a dissenting Church, (or lose their jobs) and so their records were not well kept. At others, Church of Scotland Ministers were more tolerant and entered dissenting baptisms and marriages in the normal parish registers. Now, the relevant Bowden Minister was James Hume, 1712-1792. Minister 1742-1792. I'm wondering if, like Whitsome, the Kirk admin was (not always) being done by the neighboring parish Ministers as Hume aged..

    Must find Arnott..
    Is there a date on the page full of baptisms? Another possibility is that the family started out as dissenters, and then changed their minds.

    I realise that this is (a) speculation and (b) well beyond your query, but it's rather interesting to see the effect of rule/law/belief changes on families.

  8. #8
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    There are a couple of records of interest about Midholm in the National Records of Scotland catalogue.
    1097 Records of the Midholm Original United Secession Church. Belonged to the anti burgher branch of the Secessionist church
    Est 1742, first minister Patrick Matthews
    CS229/K/1/52
    William King and others v Dyce
    mentions Meeting House at Midholm under ministry of Andrew Arnott

    On the online history of Guinston church in Pennsylvania it mentions that in 1753 Alexander Gellatly and Andrew Arnott ministers at Midholm arrived in America and formed the Associate Presbytery of Pennsylvania. Perhaps Andrew returned home?
    As Lesley says, doesn't help your query but interesting just the same.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisel View Post
    There are a couple of records of interest about Midholm in the National Records of Scotland catalogue.
    1097 Records of the Midholm Original United Secession Church. Belonged to the anti burgher branch of the Secessionist church
    Est 1742, first minister Patrick Matthews
    CS229/K/1/52
    William King and others v Dyce
    mentions Meeting House at Midholm under ministry of Andrew Arnott

    On the online history of Guinston church in Pennsylvania it mentions that in 1753 Alexander Gellatly and Andrew Arnott ministers at Midholm arrived in America and formed the Associate Presbytery of Pennsylvania. Perhaps Andrew returned home?
    As Lesley says, doesn't help your query but interesting just the same.
    Meant to say the date for ref CS229 was 1784.

  10. #10

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    Grisel, thank you! It's grand to see a guess be verified!

    I have found a Hathi Trust biography (HERE) that says he was at Midholm for 51 years. The Synod appointed him to visit America as a missionary, with a newbie. It's worth a read- it seems he used strong language to denounce young men for being unwilling to go the America and they called him on it! He stayed 2 years. He's buried in Portmoak (?).

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