Charles Frank Samwell born - 31 March 1922

[eleanor.samwell]

Hi

I am looking to get my great uncle's WWII records (Charles Frank Samwell) which I know I need to apply to the MOD for this. However, I need to try to find some information first in order to apply. I have very little information. I know his name is Charles Frank Samwell and born 31 March 1922. In 1939 he lived at 48 Herbert Grove, Shoreditch.

I know he served and suffered greatly in the battle at Monte Cassino. He was under fire for 7 days and 7 nights and suffered shell shock from that.

There is some talk in the family that he was in the royal air force and also the Coldstream Guards. He was invalidated out of the war at some stage and I think took on some administration role and used to write a newspaper. I have a photo of his uniform but I cannot upload it here. It does not really show anything other than an emblem on his hat.

I think I need to find his service number before applying to the MOD for his service record. Is this correct? If so, how do I find this? I cannot find any medal lists or injury lists with his name on it. How can I find which regiment he was in?

Thank you

[Pam Downes]

You need only his name, date of birth, copy of his death certificate, thirty quid, and currently patience to wait at least eighteen months before receiving the records.
All the details, plus links to the forms to send can be found in this link.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...-WW2-amp-after

You will need to confirm which service he served in so you can send the appropriate forms to the appropriate office, though if he was under fire at Monte Cassino I would doubt that he was in the RAF.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Had a feeling there was something about records for the Guards regiments perhaps being elsewhere, so do an internet search for 'service records Coldstream Guards' to get a little more background.

If you don't have a subscription to FMP I would suggest that you either try to access the military section by going online at your local library, or else sign up for a fourteen-day free trial if you've not previously done so. (Remember to untick the auto-renew box otherwise your bank balance might get a shock.)
There are two very brief entries for Charles re the Coldstream Guards, but one does say F.S. in RAF. Virtually every other entry on that page, and for several pages earlier, also says FS in RAF, so I don't know if that's where they all came from, or where they all went to at the end of the war when a lot of men were signed up for the reserve forces.
The book that record is in does seem to be a 'what happened next' because one of the earlier records says 'killed' and records the date in 1944. I checked that record on the CWGC site and the soldier is recorded as being in the Coldstream Guards.

Pam

[helachau]

If you check FMP under surname "Samwell" (no given names/initials) and "2667616" (Soldier No.) it will return 4 hits. The record under "Samwell C 1946" is of particular interest.

[Pam Downes]

If you check FMP under surname "Samwell" (no given names/initials) and "2667616" (Soldier No.) it will return 4 hits. The record under "Samwell C 1946" is of particular interest.

Obviously the sayings 'less is more' and 'try different terms' are true.
I put in Charles Samwell, born 1922, and only got two hits.

ADDED:
After just checking for the two items I missed, one of them (dated 1945-1947) is just Charles' name in the index to the one dated 1946. It merely gives his name, number, and date of discharge.

Pam

[eleanor.samwell]

Thank you so much everyone. I have managed to find him!! Does anyone know what the FS before the RAF on the record means?

[Lesley Robertson]

Murphy's Law of genealogy is always active, but I think the FS is Flight Sgt.
He could have been at Monte Cassino if his plane had come down near there. If he was able, he would have headed for the nearest Allied forces.

CWGC have about 18 RAF casualties buried at Cassino who died at about the time of the battle. Some could be his crew - I don't suppose that the source shows his squadron? With a 7 digit number, I'm wondering whether he was RAFVR.

I've come across another RAF Charles Frank Samwell, this one with the number 1613881... No other info.

[Pam Downes]

I've come across another RAF Charles Frank Samwell, this one with the number 1613881... No other info.

That number is the one given in the FMP record dated 1943-1944, along with 'F.S. in RAF'.
The column containing those details is headed "Transfers to other Corps or cause of becoming non-effective and record of re-enlistment (if any). (Including date.)"

So, the way I read that, is that he was originally in the the Coldstream Guards and then transferred to the RAF/RAF Reserve.

The big mystery is that it's definitely a Coldstream Guards record book, but for several pages before Charles' entry and for quite a lot afterwards all the entries say 'F.S. in RAF'. At a rough estimate there's about 200 names, possibly a few more.

[helachau]

I also took it as "Flight Sergeant"

The no. 1613881 is recorded against one of his no. 2667616 FMP records.

[Lesley Robertson]

I've just found my list of RAF service numbers (old PC died in mid-update, finding backed up bookmarks "interesting").
It gives: 1610001-1649900 as allocated starting in Oct 1914 in Cardington. The next block starts in Apr 1942.
2600000-2699999 started in Sep 1946, next block starts in Aug 1953. This covered RAFVR & WRAFVR and R Aux AF/WR (the latter tagged as post war.
It's HERE if you want it.
Specific groups had blocks of numbers allocated together (eg my Dad's gang of Boy Entrants had 6 digit numbers starting in 55) but that doesn't apply here.

Did airmen in WW2 change numbers if they transferred to the VR?

PS Cardington was home to Number 2 Recruitment Centre.