Spicer brickwall

[Ms.Maia]

Hello All! It's been a while since I've been here! I'm still working on a handful of brickwalls. I've received some really great help here in the past so I'm hoping someone may see something I'm not (as is usually the case) with this brickwall.

I'm searching for any info on William Spicer, born ab 1853 (I believe in England). And/or his brother, John Spicer (born ab 1857, Stepney, Middlesex, England).

William's father was John Spicer (born ab 1821 Coventry, Warwickshire, England)
William's mother was Sarah Heelas (born ab 1825 England)
William had several siblings:
Eliza Spicer (born ab 1848, Baldock, Hertfordshire, England)
Sarah Spicer (born ab 1851, Poplar, Middlesex, England)
Mary Ann Spicer (born ab 1855)
John Spicer (born ab 1857, Stepney, Middlesex, England)
George Quinten Spicer (born ab 1865, Limehouse, Middlesex, England). Died 1910 Trinidad

Out of this family, William and his brother John seem to the ones I have the least bit of info on, and I think one of them may have been my great great grandfather's father (Elvan Spicer, born in Tobago). Some time back, in this forum, some of you helped me find info on Sarah Spicer (William's sister), noting that she may or may not be part of the family I was searching for. Years later, I found it she is! I ended up sharing some DNA with some of her descendants so the info shared here helped me so much. Sadly, I haven't been able to get any further. I'm hoping someone can take a look. I'm not the keenest of searches, and I may be overlooking something. Thank you so much.

[christanel]

Good to see you back again
First of all the link to the other Spicer threads just in case anyone wants to refresh their memory.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...t-grandparents
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...land-Trinidad)


Birth registration of John from the GRO index
SPICER, JOHN mother's maiden name HEELAS
GRO Reference: 1857 March Quarter in STEPNEY Vol 1C Page 497

And William's
Spicer William mmn Heelas
1853 March 1/4 STEPNEY vol 1c page 557

I seem to be having trouble loading ancestry at the moment so will get back to it later

Christina

[christanel]

Was Elvan/Elvon born c1874 and died 1921? Where did he die?
He made a trip from Trinidad to the UK in 1913?

Information from tree on ancestry which could help in tracing back
Elvan Spicer
Birth 1874 Tobago, Trinidad and Tobago
Death 4 Jun 1921 San Jaun, Trinidad West Indies
Spouse Eleanor Loinsworth

Christina

[Ms.Maia]

Yes, that is him. Those are correct dates and he died in Trinidad. But where did you see/find info about him making a trip from Trinidad to the UK in 1913? I've never seen that!

Was Elvan/Elvon born c1874 and died 1921? Where did he die?
He made a trip from Trinidad to the UK in 1913?

Information from tree on ancestry which could help in tracing back
Elvan Spicer
Birth 1874 Tobago, Trinidad and Tobago
Death 4 Jun 1921 San Jaun, Trinidad West Indies
Spouse Eleanor Loinsworth

Christina

[Ms.Maia]

Thanks so much for referencing the old threads. I've found out much information since then and realized some of the surnames I was looking for were incorrect. Spicer is still my huge brickwall though! And Spicer is definitely correct.

(De Vertuil ended up being wrong, Maillard was the correct name and I've been able to find a lot that I needed thankfully).

Is there more information on this:
Birth registration of John from the GRO index
SPICER, JOHN mother's maiden name HEELAS
GRO Reference: 1857 March Quarter in STEPNEY Vol 1C Page 497

And William's
Spicer William mmn Heelas
1853 March 1/4 STEPNEY vol 1c page 557

Thank you!

Good to see you back again
First of all the link to the other Spicer threads just in case anyone wants to refresh their memory.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...t-grandparents
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...land-Trinidad)


Birth registration of John from the GRO index
SPICER, JOHN mother's maiden name HEELAS
GRO Reference: 1857 March Quarter in STEPNEY Vol 1C Page 497

And William's
Spicer William mmn Heelas
1853 March 1/4 STEPNEY vol 1c page 557

I seem to be having trouble loading ancestry at the moment so will get back to it later

Christina

[christanel]

I could have presumed a lot about the trip from Trinidad which turned up on the Finfmypast transcriptions in Passenger Lists Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies but it does only give the initial E for first name and S? for the surname and looking for it again I can't find it but there is now one for a passage from the UK to Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies for a surname Spicer but no first name. I don't have a subscription so can't look at original images

From FreeBMD has John Spicer marriage to Sarah Heelas Dec 1/4 1849 registration district Stepney vol 2 page 483.
John and William are on the 1861 census with their mother Sarah, noted as a mariner's wife so presumably her husband John is away at sea. RG9 Piece 287 Folio 107 Page 26
Could young John age 4 in 1861 be the one at Barningham Academy, Barningham Yorkshire, age 14, a scholar, born London Middlesex in the 1871 census? RG10 Piece 4944 Folio 5 Page 1
John Spicer was baptised at St Anne, Limehouse, Tower Hamlets, so this is a very possible contender for your man.
1881 Piece 4933 Folio 111 Page 5
John Spicer age 25 born London, Middlesex, a farm labourer, still in Barningham Yorkshire.

The only William Spicer I can see at the moment in 1881 is a boarder with the Vile family at Leyton Low West Ham, Essex, a commercial clerk age 24 and born Limehouse Middlesex.
RG11 Piece 1726 Folio 155 Page 36.

There is a marriage for a William Spicer March 1/4 1875 but in the registration district of Coventry Warwickshire to either a Martha Charley or an Elizabeth Riley but haven't found them in the 1881 census as yet. However if William is the father of Evan c1874 then William should in in Trinidad at least by 1873.

You won't get more information for the birth registrations without buying the certificates but the baptisms for William and John are on ancestry. I will post the info from them later but have to leave this for now.
Christina

[Jomot1]

I've looked at the two suggested passenger lists, and the one just with the surname Spicer is MRS Spicer onthe image, and the one transcribed as E S? is Mrs E Savill

[Megan Roberts]

Is there more information on this:
Birth registration of John from the GRO index
SPICER, JOHN mother's maiden name HEELAS
GRO Reference: 1857 March Quarter in STEPNEY Vol 1C Page 497

And William's
Spicer William mmn Heelas
1853 March 1/4 STEPNEY vol 1c page 557

Thank you!

These references refer to the civil registration of births, marriages and deaths from 1837 onwards. Copies of the certificates, which have a lot more information on them, can be bought on line from the GRO:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

For birth and death certificates the cheapest option is order a PDF version (unless you desperately want a coloured version), and they are delivered electronically. Marriage certificates are not yet available electronically, and so the turn around is slower and they are more expensive.

There is a helpful FAQ section on the GRO website which will give you full details of what to see a certicate.

[Ms.Maia]

Thanks so much! Lots of info! Is this all from FreeBMD? I'm not able to pull up this info so maybe I just don't know how to search well enough on the site. Will be interesting to see their baptism info. I ordered the PDF of births today after reading this message (thank you!).

If William married at that time, not in Trinidad... maybe I should focus more on John Spicer.

I could have presumed a lot about the trip from Trinidad which turned up on the Finfmypast transcriptions in Passenger Lists Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies but it does only give the initial E for first name and S? for the surname and looking for it again I can't find it but there is now one for a passage from the UK to Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies for a surname Spicer but no first name. I don't have a subscription so can't look at original images

From FreeBMD has John Spicer marriage to Sarah Heelas Dec 1/4 1849 registration district Stepney vol 2 page 483.
John and William are on the 1861 census with their mother Sarah, noted as a mariner's wife so presumably her husband John is away at sea. RG9 Piece 287 Folio 107 Page 26
Could young John age 4 in 1861 be the one at Barningham Academy, Barningham Yorkshire, age 14, a scholar, born London Middlesex in the 1871 census? RG10 Piece 4944 Folio 5 Page 1
John Spicer was baptised at St Anne, Limehouse, Tower Hamlets, so this is a very possible contender for your man.
1881 Piece 4933 Folio 111 Page 5
John Spicer age 25 born London, Middlesex, a farm labourer, still in Barningham Yorkshire.

The only William Spicer I can see at the moment in 1881 is a boarder with the Vile family at Leyton Low West Ham, Essex, a commercial clerk age 24 and born Limehouse Middlesex.
RG11 Piece 1726 Folio 155 Page 36.

There is a marriage for a William Spicer March 1/4 1875 but in the registration district of Coventry Warwickshire to either a Martha Charley or an Elizabeth Riley but haven't found them in the 1881 census as yet. However if William is the father of Evan c1874 then William should in in Trinidad at least by 1873.

You won't get more information for the birth registrations without buying the certificates but the baptisms for William and John are on ancestry. I will post the info from them later but have to leave this for now.
Christina

[Ms.Maia]

Good to know, thank you! Where can I see image of Mrs.Spicer document?

I've looked at the two suggested passenger lists, and the one just with the surname Spicer is MRS Spicer onthe image, and the one transcribed as E S? is Mrs E Savill