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  1. #1
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    Default Something to think about

    I have been doing some research into one branch of my family and as is not uncommon in Wales I have hit the conundrum of patrionymic names.

    Trying to work out connections and unravel the mystery I have started searching the 1841 Census for the parish of LLANEILIAN on Anglesey. To my utter horror and frustration when using FMP and trying to limit my search to that parish I discovered that FMP have two parishes with similar names, except that one of them isn't a parish it is a misspelling of Llaneilian, (it misses out the first "i") on the part of those who transcribed it.

    It has left me wondering how many of my other searches for Welsh ancestors in all sorts of parishes may have been frustrated or curtailed by them making up a parish name. I accept that transcription errors happen, but when it comes to the names of towns or parishes these should be correct as there are plenty of reference books to refer to.

    On a more positive note it transpires that the original enumerator too a liberal approach to filling in the returns so that comments which later on were deleted by the auditors remain legible, and so I have "widow", "wife of ..", "granddaughter" and "old maid".

    And the entry for Piece 1362 book 8 folio 3 page 33 throughs up a whole list of questions:

    First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
    Hugh Hughes Male 80 1761 Anglesey, Wales
    Hugh Owen Male 40 1801 Anglesey, Wales
    Elizabeth Hughes Female 35 1806 Anglesey, Wales
    Robert Hughes Male 11 1830 Anglesey, Wales
    Owen Hughes Male 2 1839 Anglesey, Wales
    Richard Hughes Male 0 1841 Anglesey, Wales

    The handwritten comment against Elizabeth reads "wife of H O".
    • So were they married and she retained her maiden name and gave it to her children?
    • Were they not married?
    • Were they her children?
    • Were they his children?
    • Etc etc.

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    And the entry for Piece 1362 book 8 folio 3 page 33 throughs up a whole list of questions:

    First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
    Hugh Hughes Male 80 1761 Anglesey, Wales
    Hugh Owen Male 40 1801 Anglesey, Wales
    Elizabeth Hughes Female 35 1806 Anglesey, Wales
    Robert Hughes Male 11 1830 Anglesey, Wales
    Owen Hughes Male 2 1839 Anglesey, Wales
    Richard Hughes Male 0 1841 Anglesey, Wales

    The handwritten comment against Elizabeth reads "wife of H O".
    [LIST][*]So were they married and she retained her maiden name and gave it to her children?[*]Were they not married?[*]Were they her children?[*]Were they his children?[*]Etc etc.[*]

    Perhaps Hugh Owen is in fact Hugh Owen Hughes (age 40) His father being Hugh Hughes (age 80. Do you have a marriage entry for Elizabeth and Hugh?

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    Another question, how can you search the 1841 census for a particular parish? I thought the 1841 would only give a Y or N as to whether or not the person was born in the county of the census in 1841.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post
    Another question, how can you search the 1841 census for a particular parish? I thought the 1841 would only give a Y or N as to whether or not the person was born in the county of the census in 1841.
    Er, Sue, could be that in this Census of Anglesey, they answered Yes to being born in Anglesey? 'course living the other side of the Severn, I assume that Anglesey is/was a county in its own right.
    p s there is a record of the 80 year old baptised in Anglesey in 1761.
    Peter Nicholl
    Researching:Nicholl,Boater, Haselgrove & Vaughan

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post
    Another question, how can you search the 1841 census for a particular parish? I thought the 1841 would only give a Y or N as to whether or not the person was born in the county of the census in 1841.
    There's a separate box for parish on the search page and you don't need to enter a county.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post


    Perhaps Hugh Owen is in fact Hugh Owen Hughes (age 40) His father being Hugh Hughes (age 80. Do you have a marriage entry for Elizabeth and Hugh?
    Extremely unlikely. They are many examples pre civil registration, which this virtually is, where women were known as for example Elizabeth Hughes the wife of Hugh Owen. It is all linked in with the patronymic naming system that existed in Wales.

    As for the children's surnames the enumerater could simply have applied the mother's surname to them without asking.

    I should also add that this is not my family, but was using it as an illustration of the interesting things to be found on censuses if you look at the original returns.

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    Famous for offering help & advice peter nicholl's Avatar
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    Sorry Sue, just read Megan's helpful reply and then re-read your question. I'm off to the Naughty Corner.
    Peter Nicholl
    Researching:Nicholl,Boater, Haselgrove & Vaughan

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nicholl View Post
    Er, Sue, could be that in this Census of Anglesey, they answered Yes to being born in Anglesey? 'course living the other side of the Severn, I assume that Anglesey is/was a county in its own right.
    p s there is a record of the 80 year old baptised in Anglesey in 1761.
    Never occurred to me that Anglesey was a county! My grandmother was born in Ffestiniog which is now Gwynedd (same as Anglesey) but was Merionethshire. My Great grandfather retired to Rhyl in about 1860, my dad, his 7 sisters and a brother were all born in Rhyl. Rhyl used to be in Flintshire now it is Denbighshire with a Liverpool post code!

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post
    Never occurred to me that Anglesey was a county! My grandmother was born in Ffestiniog which is now Gwynedd (same as Anglesey) but was Merionethshire. My Great grandfather retired to Rhyl in about 1860, my dad, his 7 sisters and a brother were all born in Rhyl. Rhyl used to be in Flintshire now it is Denbighshire with a Liverpool post code!
    Anglesey left Gwynedd in the mid-1990s and is now an independent county.

    There are so many local government reorganisations that it makes your head spin!

  10. #10

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    Wales seems to be worse than Scotland, and that’s saying something!

    This sounds like something that should be covered on the Wales area of GENUKI, the venerable handbook for UK family history. If it isn’t, I’m sure the coordinator of the all-Wales area would welcome a short article or table showing the assorted names and when they changed.

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