Carysforth Jeannot

**christanel** · 08-09-2021, 8:26 PM

Originally Posted by pat fowles

Don't mean to sound irritated but Waynea how reliable is your info posted on here. Meta Lucy Carysforth married David Aspden Mar 1/4 1923 in Blackburn. Then there is Cissie Carysforth married Harry Drayton Sept 1/4 1940 in Stourbridge.
Didn't you say she married your Grandfather in the 1930's , and didn't you say you referred to her as Sissy???

I was also looking at these weddings and children born to them.
Meta Carysforth and David Aspden were married for 10 years before the birth registration of a son in 1933 whereas Cissie Carysforth and Harry Drayton appear to have had one child birth registered Dec 1/4 1948, 8 years after their marriage.
Cissie Carysforth birth reg June 1/4 1919 registration district Dudley (spans the boundaries of the counties of Worcestershire and Staffordshire} mother's maiden name Bache. To this couple another daughter 1921, sons 1923 and 1925 Bristol reg dist and lastly a daughter 1926 Bristol. Robert R S Carysforth married Phoebe A Bache Dec 1/4 1918 reg dist Stourbridge. This family don't seem to have moved North at any time and the daughter Phoebe E Carysforth born 1921 is on the 1939 register with her full name crossed out and replaced with the name Cissie Drayton but she has given her birth date as May 1919 which is the birth date of Cissie Carysforth mmn Bache! She is living with the Stirk family and marries William Powell in 1943 whereas Cissie Carysforth married Harry Drayton in 1940. What hope have we got if they didn't know who they were on the 1939 register?

Christina

**waynea** · 10-09-2021, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by christanel

I was also looking at these weddings and children born to them.
Meta Carysforth and David Aspden were married for 10 years before the birth registration of a son in 1933 whereas Cissie Carysforth and Harry Drayton appear to have had one child birth registered Dec 1/4 1948, 8 years after their marriage.
Cissie Carysforth birth reg June 1/4 1919 registration district Dudley (spans the boundaries of the counties of Worcestershire and Staffordshire} mother's maiden name Bache. To this couple another daughter 1921, sons 1923 and 1925 Bristol reg dist and lastly a daughter 1926 Bristol. Robert R S Carysforth married Phoebe A Bache Dec 1/4 1918 reg dist Stourbridge. This family don't seem to have moved North at any time and the daughter Phoebe E Carysforth born 1921 is on the 1939 register with her full name crossed out and replaced with the name Cissie Drayton but she has given her birth date as May 1919 which is the birth date of Cissie Carysforth mmn Bache! She is living with the Stirk family and marries William Powell in 1943 whereas Cissie Carysforth married Harry Drayton in 1940. What hope have we got if they didn't know who they were on the 1939 register?

Christina

pat fowles. The information from my side of the family is 100% correct as it involves my Father and Grandmother. Meta Lucy Aspden (nee) Carysforth and David Aspden b 3/12/33. The name Cissie, is a name that everybody who knew My Grandma, called her. It was not her birth name but a nick name as such. As mentioned earlier i only found this out a few years before she passed away.

The Carysforth / Drayton side I am not sure. I have never traced that far afield. Trying to get the immediate family right first. This could be an offshoot of the Carysforth side that I am unaware of.

Also mentioned earlier is the fact that Meta Lucy would not talk about her past / childhood. Not even to her son. I only met 2 of her relatives (carysforths) Bobby and ALfie Carysforth. I know Alfie had an antique shop on Revidge Blackburn, Lancashire but was very young when visiting Bobby and cannot remember where it was.

On the Aspden side I met all uncles of my Father. Tom, Dick and Harry and Flossie who all lived in Blackburn.

**pat fowles** · 10-09-2021, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by waynea

pat fowles. The information from my side of the family is 100% correct as it involves my Father and Grandmother. Meta Lucy Aspden (nee) Carysforth and David Aspden b 3/12/33. The name Cissie, is a name that everybody who knew My Grandma, called her. It was not her birth name but a nick name as such. As mentioned earlier i only found this out a few years before she passed away.

The Carysforth / Drayton side I am not sure. I have never traced that far afield. Trying to get the immediate family right first. This could be an offshoot of the Carysforth side that I am unaware of.

Also mentioned earlier is the fact that Meta Lucy would not talk about her past / childhood. Not even to her son. I only met 2 of her relatives (carysforths) Bobby and ALfie Carysforth. I know Alfie had an antique shop on Revidge Blackburn, Lancashire but was very young when visiting Bobby and cannot remember where it was.

On the Aspden side I met all uncles of my Father. Tom, Dick and Harry and Flossie who all lived in Blackburn.

I think the problem is that your 100% is only based on hearsay and not fact. Some of the research done by people on this latest post completely contradicts what you have said. You have been posting the same stuff on here since 2007 and obviously haven't bothered since then to obtain any birth, marriage or death certs. which may actually give you more facts.

**waynea** · 10-09-2021, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by pat fowles

I think the problem is that your 100% is only based on hearsay and not fact. Some of the research done by people on this latest post completely contradicts what you have said. You have been posting the same stuff on here since 2007 and obviously haven't bothered since then to obtain any birth, marriage or death certs. which may actually give you more facts.

Once again Pat Fowles, I would like to thank you for your input in the past few weeks. However I presume by your last post that you have definitely reached the annoyed stage. I will answer your somewhat abruptly stated question though.

The ONLY information i have ever quoted as 100% fact are my immediate family (posted on numerous occasions)is not hearsay and is 100% categorical undisputable fact. This includes only and is limited too, My Father and Grandmother. Everything else is penciled in by the good people on this forum (including yourself).

To address the rest of your tersely stated question.
YES, I have had a few prior posts on sites like this.
The reasons for this are my own reasons and it is not necessary to explain it to anybody.

Feel free to respond if you feel the need but i would not see the point as your last statement is obviously not correct, wanted or needed.

**Jomot1** · 10-09-2021, 11:36 AM

Hi again Waynea

Speaking only for myself, I can honestly say that the family history community is a very generous one that gives freely of their time and resources. Frustrations do bubble over from time to time however, especially when enquirers appear to be doing little to help themselves. I appreciate that often this is purely due to inexperience, and perhaps that is the case here.

From the research so far, it is very clear that neither you nor us will be able to progress any further without two key documents from the GRO: Henry's marriage to Laura, and the birth certificate of Henry & Lucy's first child, born as Rudolph Richard Sydney Carysforth.

You can order the birth certificate as a PDF for £7, although the marriage certificate can only be ordered in 'hard copy' at a cost of £11,

Once you have these, please come back and post up all of the details - you may be tempted to tell us only what you think are the 'important' bits, but sometimes its the seemingly unimportant details that can be the key.

I think this is one we'd all like to crack!

**christanel** · 10-09-2021, 7:49 PM

I am late in replying to your last post waynea but Jomo1's reply is an excellent explanation of what steps must be taken to allow all of us researching our family tree to move back through the generations with certainty.
As you are seeing from the information we have all been finding sometimes we have to look at the peripheral information which can help in the search just because we can either dismiss it as being irrelevant or glean an unexpected small piece of information. The one thing we can all relate to is family stories that have been passed down through the generations and maybe embellished along the way to support a more acceptable scenario. As in the case of my grandmother telling us she had no contact with her father after he deserted her and her mother. Yet on her death we found letters from him from South Africa!
Your search for Henry Carysforth's roots is a very difficult one but one thing all of us who have contributed to this thread are agreed upon is that purchasing the marriage certificate of Henry Carysforth and Laura and the birth certificate of Rudolph Richard Sydney Carysforth is essential. We do love helping to solve mysteries and look forward to helping you solve this one.
Christina

**waynea** · 11-09-2021, 2:02 AM

Originally Posted by christanel

I am late in replying to your last post waynea but Jomo1's reply is an excellent explanation of what steps must be taken to allow all of us researching our family tree to move back through the generations with certainty.
As you are seeing from the information we have all been finding sometimes we have to look at the peripheral information which can help in the search just because we can either dismiss it as being irrelevant or glean an unexpected small piece of information. The one thing we can all relate to is family stories that have been passed down through the generations and maybe embellished along the way to support a more acceptable scenario. As in the case of my grandmother telling us she had no contact with her father after he deserted her and her mother. Yet on her death we found letters from him from South Africa!
Your search for Henry Carysforth's roots is a very difficult one but one thing all of us who have contributed to this thread are agreed upon is that purchasing the marriage certificate of Henry Carysforth and Laura and the birth certificate of Rudolph Richard Sydney Carysforth is essential. We do love helping to solve mysteries and look forward to helping you solve this one.
Christina

Thankyou jomot1 and christanel.
In the past, yes, I have dabbled with the idea of family history as has been surmised by members of this forum. As for helpful people here, that cannot be denied. I would not even be able to make a start if not for the help I have received here.
As jomot1 mentioned, I am very new to attempting to do this properly but have took advice from people here and will get back to you all as soon as i have more information.

Please understand that I am very new to this mode of enquiry and tend to go all over the place with my posts trying to address everything.

Thank you all for your patience.

ps I am ordering the documents now

**waynea** · 11-09-2021, 5:20 AM

Originally Posted by waynea

Thankyou jomot1 and christanel.
In the past, yes, I have dabbled with the idea of family history as has been surmised by members of this forum. As for helpful people here, that cannot be denied. I would not even be able to make a start if not for the help I have received here.
As jomot1 mentioned, I am very new to attempting to do this properly but have took advice from people here and will get back to you all as soon as i have more information.

Please understand that I am very new to this mode of enquiry and tend to go all over the place with my posts trying to address everything.

Thank you all for your patience.

ps I am ordering the documents now

So, ordered Rudolphs birth certificate (pdf)
Henry Carysforth $ Laura marriage certificate
Meta Lucy Aspden birth certificate (original at my brothers) (pdf)

As soon as the pdfs arrive i will post all information in them. As you said earlier the marriage cert is being posted so will take longer.

Thank you

Wayne