Haymarket 1876

[Blois1402]

I'm researching an ancestor (Mary Louisa Brown) who was married at St Martin in The Fields church, London in 1876 to a Thomas William Pucill, a mariner from Limehouse. Originally from Poplar, she's shown as living at 18 Haymarket at the time of her marriage.

On checking electoral registers I can see that a man named John Ingoldby Sowter, a saddler lived at 18 Haymarket so I think I can assume that she was a general domestic to him and his family?? On looking at the 1871 census she's not there but would've been too young anyhow. Her husband was from Limehouse but I'm assuming that as she was living in the area she would have been allowed to marry at St Martin in the Fields Church as would have been her local parish church, does anybody know how long you'd have to live in an area to be able to marry in it's parish church?

[suemalings]

Did you mean that Mary does not appear on the 1861 census? As she married in 1876 she would have been old enough to appear on the 1871 census.

By the way my mom married in a church that was not in the parish she lived in. She decided she wanted to marry in a particular church so gave her address as that of her sister who lived in that parish.

If you think that Mary was a servant, she could have been born anywhere and went to London to take up her position.

Trying to find either Mary or Thomas on a census but as I found Thomas's Certificate of Competency as a First Mate dated 1875, I am thinking he was probably overseas when the census was taken. There are some baptism entries for children born to Mary Louisa and Thomas Purcil so perhaps we can find them on a census. One address for Louisa Mary is 44 Dixon Street, Limehouse dated 1876. Could the entry of death for a Thomas William Purcell on 26 Oct 1876 be your Thomas, age 26. So the entry for a baptism of Thomas in 1850 could be correct.

[Pam Downes]

To the best of my knowledge, you were supposed to be resident in a parish for a minimum of three weeks prior to the marriage if you were marrying by banns - the banns have to be called for three weeks before the marriage took place.
If you were marrying by (special) licence, then there was no qualifying time but obviously there was a bigger fee to pay to obtain the licence so not many 'ordinary' people chose that.

Pam

[Pamelawagster]

Mary Louisa Pucill a widow remarries in Poplar in 1880. Address given as 44 Dixon St,Limehouse.
Spouse, Franciss Frederick James Billot. A mariner.

[Blois1402]

Did you mean that Mary does not appear on the 1861 census? As she married in 1876 she would have been old enough to appear on the 1871 census.

By the way my mom married in a church that was not in the parish she lived in. She decided she wanted to marry in a particular church so gave her address as that of her sister who lived in that parish.

If you think that Mary was a servant, she could have been born anywhere and went to London to take up her position.

Trying to find either Mary or Thomas on a census but as I found Thomas's Certificate of Competency as a First Mate dated 1875, I am thinking he was probably overseas when the census was taken. There are some baptism entries for children born to Mary Louisa and Thomas Purcil so perhaps we can find them on a census. One address for Louisa Mary is 44 Dixon Street, Limehouse dated 1876. Could the entry of death for a Thomas William Purcell on 26 Oct 1876 be your Thomas, age 26. So the entry for a baptism of Thomas in 1850 could be correct.

I can't find her on an 1871 census, Mary Brown isn't the easiest of names to research. There is a possible match in Limehouse in 1871 but her father's name on that is shown as James and not John (as stated on marriage certificate), so not sure. Her first husband Thomas William Pucill died in 1878 and she then remarried in 1880 to Francis Frederick James Billot.

I just wondered what she was doing living at 18 Haymarket at the time of her marriage when she was from Poplar/Limehouse area, she's not shown as living at 18 Haymarket on 1871 or 1881 census so I think I can only assume she was working there as a general domestic at the time of her marriage- for John Ingoldby Sowter who was a saddler and living there at the time. I've found the banns read out at St Martin in the Fields and as somebody else mentioned, you only had to live in an area for 3 weeks prior to the marriage to get married in that church.

Thanks for all the replies, I'm new to forums so not sure if I'm responding in the right way so apologies if not.

[almach]

1861, RG 9; Piece: 289; Folio: 96; Page: 38;

1881, RG11; Piece: 469; Folio: 72; Page: 23;

I have to go out soon, but I think these census worth looking at. At Mary Louisa's first marriage John was described as an oilman, at her second marriage a warehouseman. The above 1881 census describes him as warehouseman oil and colour works.

The 1861 has Louisa Mary but it is not unusual for people to swap their names around.

[almach]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm new to forums so not sure if I'm responding in the right way so apologies if not.

You're doing great.

Sorry for my rushed replies but inputting in between getting organised for my appointment. Good luck

[Blois1402]

Thank you very much Alma, that's very helpful. I've now found john Brown on 1891-1911 censuses aswell. Seems to have a different wife on each one but I'm in no doubt it's him! I believe an oil and colour works is a paint factory but I did read something else that "According to Halls Genealogy an Oilman is a lamp oil Seller. An Oil and Colour man is a dealer in the victualling trade and an Oil Colour man is involved in the paint trade" I think in his case, and as he's just described as 'oilman' on his daughter's marriage record, he was involved in in selling oil for lamps and possibly paint too...or maybe he was just generally well oiled ))

Think you are right about Mary Louisa changing her name over to Louisa Mary on the 1861 census especially as Johns wife or partner at the time was also Mary.

[almach]

The children from the 1861 census all have their mother's maiden name, DRAPER.

BROWN, MARY LOUISA DRAPER
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in CITY OF LONDON Volume 01C Page 92

BROWN, GEORGE WILLIAM DRAPER
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 445

BROWN, MARK DRAPER
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 594

In 1871 John is entered as James!
Piece: 553; Folio: 61; Page number: 47
St Anne, Limehouse.
James Brown 40 Head, warehouseman, Wingfield Suffolk
Mary Brown 45 Wife, Baldock Hertfordshire
Mary L Brown 16 Daughter, milliner, London city
George W Brown 15 Son, engine fitter apprentice, Ratcliff Middlesex
Mark Brown 14 Son, Limehouse.

If you'd like more help, please say.

[helachau]

London Metropolitan Marriages
Parish Church of St mark, Old Street
11 September 1853
John Brown, full age, bachelor, Porter, 40 Featherstone St, father George Brown, laborer
Mary Draper, full age, spinster, 40 Featherstone St, father William Draper, laborer
Witnesses - Charles Kemp, Hannah J George(?)

1851 Census (ref HO107 1503 116 41)
Address - 6 Church Row, St Mary Stoke Newington, Hackney
Mary Draper, single, age 25, Servant, born Baldock, Herts