Hill family... Wolverhampton

[Pam Downes]

bloomin eck...what stars you are...you askrd for certificate information....
Lilly may Hill d o Thomas Hill (blast furaceman) and Mary (Farnell) oct 1894 sedgley.
sept 1888 cosely thomas hill bach labourer hall green st. father thomas hill miner marr
mary farnell spinster highfields father James FARnell boatman
nov 1866 thomas hill wolverhampton so thomas hill coal miner and elizabeh hill formerley jones.
june 1859 bloxwich thomas hill miner from new invention 20 s o william hill miner marr
elizabeth jones 19 spnstr at home d ojames jones miner.
mar 1839 monmore green wton thomas hill s o william hill miner and sarah(thomas)
dec 1837 william hill 24 miner s o john backhose miner marr sarah thomas 21 spnstr labourer d o richard thomas miner

i have had no success with the thomas family or the jones family...

Words fail me.
Alma spends at least two (though probably more like three) hours of her day finding all the census details, typing them up and adding the census reference to make it easy for anyone else who might be able to help you, as well as finding birth registrations for the children in the census, plus a few other details.
And you can't even be bothered to type 'birth certificate' or 'marriage certificate' as appropriate, nor leave a line between the entries so it's easy to recognise where one entry stops and the next one starts.

You've also failed to answer my question in post # 12 which refers to the marriage certificate of Thomas Hill and Sarah Thomas in 1837.

So the marriage certificate is in the style of the ones in use nowadays?
Like the one in this link?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...3A1%3AVNNK-VHK
(Just sign into your FamilySearch account, and it should be viewable.)

I asked because, as explained in post #7, the only marriage certificate I could find (online) was an old-style one of the type used before the introduction of civil registration on 1 July 1837. (This was searching the Staffordshire Marriages dataset on FMP.)

I then did a little more digging into the parish marriage registers for Wolverhampton St Peter showing online on FMP, and I'd found a new-style register beginning (IIRC) in April 1838.
In trying to find that register again, I've now done a 'Staffordshire Parish Registers browse' on FMP and blow me, there's a new-style marriage PR beginning 1 July 1837. What's more, the vicar gives the actual age of the bride and groom as opposed to 'of full age' or 'minor' which was usually the case until at least the 1850s, sometimes later. (I think it's the first time I've seen ages given that early.)
So there's actually two registers, for the same marriages, and certainly for William and Sarah's marriage there's a difference in the witnesses. John Biddulph signs both, but the old-style is signed by C H Boyle and the new-style by William Barnett.

You might like to note that William's father is named as John Blackham.
And the vicar had a very busy Christmas Day in 1837, marrying twenty-one couples including a Sarah Thomas who married Henry Lloyd.

Pam

[almach]

Alma spends at least two (though probably more like three) hours of her day finding all the census details, typing them up and adding the census reference to make it easy for anyone else who might be able to help you, as well as finding birth registrations for the children in the census, plus a few other details.
And you can't even be bothered to type 'birth certificate' or 'marriage certificate' as appropriate, nor leave a line between the entries so it's easy to recognise where one entry stops and the next one starts.

Unless Groundhopper takes on board what we are asking for which is clear, precise posts, and references where applicable I will not be offering any further help. I am more than happy to help members but those requesting help should have the manners to post with clarity and give answers to questions posed.

You've also failed to answer my question in post # 12 which refers to the marriage certificate of Thomas Hill and Sarah Thomas in 1837.

Groundhopper, that question should have been answered as was key to finding more info on William Hill.

You might like to note that William's father is named as John Blackham.
And the vicar had a very busy Christmas Day in 1837, marrying twenty-one couples including a Sarah Thomas who married Henry Lloyd.

You sent us on a wild goose chase for John Backhouse, when in fact the surname was Blackham.

Come on, surely you can do better. Invest some time into your posts and proofread your answers before posting. Why would we spend time on your query if you aren't prepared to even answer our questions?

[Groundhopper]

Firstly my apolgies and thanks but before you get too frustrated please be aware i am a keyworker and also a carer for my disabled daughter (who managed to post my original statement before i had time to finish it) so i dont have loads of spare time at the moment with these commitments and responsibilities. It litererally is just graqb a few minutes here and there at the moment with these poages that are 20 years old that turned up during our house move two weeks ago which i am still sorting things through. Having said that i dio take on board what you have said and will try harder..the certificate is the type in the link you sent and the name on iot for John on mine goes straight from a B to an a with no L hence my confususion or misinformation my apologies but i can only say what i see infront of me. Again my grateful thanks and sincere apologies and i will try harder. Dowes John Blachamthen appear on the 1841 census....and its groundhopper not grasshopper...but i do quite like that one...

[Pam Downes]

Groundhopper, I have every sympathy for you with your busy life (and that's before you add in a house move!) and acknowledge that everyone needs some downtime but . . . .
you are not doing yourself any favours, because you simply cannot do family history in 'odd moments' until you have everything sorted and you are left with gaps to fill such as the death of great-auntie Emma who you know was alive and living in the LlanfairPG in 1871 year.

Like you, I have papers from twenty years ago and they have formed one of my New Year's resolutions every year since 2010 - 'This year I am going to finish writing up my family history'. Considering that I have just over four months left for this year, I think I can safely say that that will be one of my NY resolutions for 2022.

Family history is not something you can do by grabbing a few minutes here and there, especially as so many more records are now available online than in the days when your only option was to travel to the local Archives/Record Office, and when you almost had to be an expert to know of the existence of some of the records now easily available.

I would suggest that you do what I'm doing which is starting again - but with the advantage that I have most of the information; it's just a case of writing it all up properly, double-checking that my facts are correct as I go. (My initial transcription skills left a lot to be desired!) I have a checklist for each person which includes the individual censuses, birth, baptism, marriage, death, burial, military service, electoral rolls, school records, wills, etc, which makes it so much easier to see which records I might be missing. I also make sure that everything is correctly referenced so that should anyone dispute my findings I can quickly find my source - so census reference; page number, entry number in a parish register; registration district, volume and page number in BMD civil registrations, etc.

With regard to William's marriage certificate did you get it from the GRO/local Registrar's Office, or is it from the parish register? If the latter, then it clearly says Blackham. If from either of the others, then obviously John's surname must have been copied incorrectly.
The copy I looked at is page 81 of 132 in FMP's Staffordshire Parish Registers browse dataset. Use 1837 as the year, and then you want Wolverhampton St Peter, with the archive reference D1157/1/1/39.

As to

Dowes John Blachamthen appear on the 1841 census.

then the answer is yes, there's twenty-six of them indexed on FMP although as some of them are younger than William you can rule them out. Can I say for definite that the one who is William's alleged father is there - no. For starters, I have no idea when he was born.

Father's names/details on marriage certificates can range from fact, and then through sort-of truthful, economical with the truth, right through to downright lies. One of my 2x great-grandmothers said her father was Thomas. My problem was that originally I was trying to make her the daughter of Thomas, who turned out to be her mother's brother, It was only later that I found she was illegitimate, and that she'd given the name of her grandfather, also Thomas, probably because he and his wife had raised Mary.
In William's case, John could simply be the man who married William's mother and no blood relative.

Pam

[Groundhopper]

Hi Pam...i have taken on board your comments...i got the certificate from the local GRO and it appears to be a photocopy on to a modern certificate...i have had a quick look for John on the 1841 census on the principal of finding anything out about him but the website i was using only had a few and didnt give an occupation. similarly i found no Frances Hill...although she could have married anybody...i think she was an unmarried mother when she had William based only on the reference to John on the marriage cert so perhaps i should look for her baptism but dont know her age or place of birth. And no sign of Richard Thomas, a miner either with no occupation to reference...all the best Mark.