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  1. #11
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    Hi

    I have been looking at this since spotting your dilemma last night.

    I believe you do have the right line with these:
    1841c Little Morley Lane - James with parents William & Elizabeth & older siblings including brother William. (H0107/269/6/6/30/54/8)

    1851c 31 Morley Place - also with above parents & siblings. Here we are told William and James are apprentices but not in what profession. (H0107/1879/531/68)

    1861c James is found with Mary Arnold (lodger)in Marylebone described as Cabinet Maker. (RG10/172/60/18)

    1871c James with Jane Jenkins in Marylebone, married?, Cabinet maker.(RG10/172/60/18). I cannot find a marriage for this pairing.

    Then he must return to Plymouth:

    Mar: James Jenkins/ Mary Chubb, Jun 1873, Plymouth, 5b, 459.

    1881c: James with actual wife, Mary and four children born 1874 to 1879. 45 Charlotte St, Stoke Damerel, Devon. Now a master baker.

    (1871c has Mary Chubb with mother, Sarah, at 10 Morley Place, Plymouth, so possibly knew each other previously? (RG10/2119/54/52))


    1891c: James Jenkins is now with Annie Louise Bell and in Surrey. Retired baker(RG12/588/4/1) Calls his first son with Annie Valentine (second son with wife Mary was also Valentine!)

    1901c: James is calling himself BELL, described a Cabinet maker and now in Beckenham, Kent with 4 children.
    (RG13/688/126/11 & 12)

    1911: James Jenkins dies Mar qtr, Bromley aged 75.

    Meanwhile:

    1891c: Mary Jenkins is with three children in Plymouth still describing herself as 'wife' and a 'bakers wife'.(RG12/1733/24/41 - transcribed surname as 'Austin')

    1901c: Mary Jenkins with the same three children, same address as 1891 - a Baker & Grocer shop.

    1903 Mary dies (Dec qtr - Mary Spencer Jenkins), aged 64.

    So it is at this point James would be 'free' to marry Annie Louise Bell, assuming he knew his first wife had died. I cannot find a marriage though.

    I'd say James & Annie did you a favour using his actual surname as the mother's maiden name instead, and he took Annie's surname. A swap in positions!

    ..............................

    If he was anything like my own 'mystery' Great Grandfather (my brick wall now solved), perhaps James couldn't afford to divorce, and may also have been trying to avoid paying maintenance for his first family! Thus the move and name/occupation change.
    Mine did exactly that! He went through the courts, meanwhile he took up with my Gt Grandmother. As they proceeded to have a family they too 'ran away' (to Kent!), changed the surname to a total blinder. Unfortunatly he continued going to court on another matter and that's what helped me 'clinch' my proof of his previous name(Newspaper Archives). I had also done a DNA test and I did tie into the lines of my new found surname that I should have inherited!

    Great fun this genealogy!

  2. #12
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    I did also find this:

    1871c: James Jenkins with a Mary Jenkins (wife), 13 Penrose Ct, Plymouth (RG10/2118/94/60) James was described as 'Sailor R N'.
    With a daughter Mary S Jenkins. Ages of James and Mary fitted, daughter born 1868 approx. But I couldn't find the birth of daughter, there was one a year later Dec 1869?

    In light of Mary Chubb, the actual wife having 'Spencer' as a middle name makes me think about this one a bit more. But then that detracts from 1871 james and Jane (from Saltby) previously mentioned.


  3. #13
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    more info:

    1871c: John Bell & Anne Elizabeth with family including Anne L Bell can be found at 7 Richmond Place, Plumstead, Kent. (RG10/792/29/6)

    Birth: Annie Louisa Bell, Mar 1862, Lewisham, 1d, 714 (mmn. Wootten).
    Siblings: Alice & Clara were born Lewisham 1863 & 1866(mmn. both Wootton)
    Siblings: John & Elizabeth were born Woolwich 1868 & 1871 (mmn. Wootton & Woollen) (all GRO)

    Marriage of parents: John Bell/Ann Elizabeth Wootten, Dec 1858, Greenwich, 1d, 887 (FreeBMD).

  4. #14

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    Hi
    you have covered the same ground as me which is encouraging.

    I have Mary & James marriage certificate - his profession was - grocer, his father William a foreman of works. her dad a butcher.

    I have James death certificate 1911 - Valentine J Jenkins son of james was the informant - James died at 29 Sultan street - where Annie lived.

    Mary Spencer Jenkins is definitely James' Mary because she left her estate to her 2 daughters with James.

    AS you said James had a son called valentine in Plymouth born 1877 , then a son called valentine in Penge
    in 1889. Valentine is not common so i feel they are linked.

    William Jenkins kindly gave his birth place as morley lane plymouth in the 1911 census in Selhurst , i wonder if both brothers moved to Kent together to find work. i Have yet to find out where william was before 1911.

    i have found the brothers and sisters of Mary & James & their parents. And james and Marys children.
    I have even visited the grave of Jane & who married Owen ash Davies & their 2 kids -they are all buried together in plymouth

    1891 census - even though it states Austin as the name - if you look on the original document they have just transcribed the information incorrectly - The Austin and Jenkins follow each other on the page but are not in the same household
    Last edited by bellfamily; 28-07-2021 at 5:54 PM. Reason: extra info

  5. #15

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    i have discounted this - as 1971 census has james Jenkins born in kent and Mary in Cornwall.

  6. #16

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    thank you - i have looked a long time for Annie Bell & the Annie Wootten & James Bell that you have found are the only family with an Annie Louisa , born in plumstead that i can find.
    She went to stay with The subbings family - as a niece in 1881
    Annie Stubbings was annie nee Farrant who stayed with John Bell & Louisa Farrant as a niece in 1851
    Annie Farrant was the daughter of George Farrant , Louisa Farrants brother.

    So i have linked the Bells and Farrants and wootens

    I still have no positive proof that this is the correct Annie Bell , my main reservation is that no other girls names are passed down through Annies Children other than elizabeth & Annie.
    Annies kids were - mildred Rose, edith Ballard , ivy rose , may florence , Annie may, annie elizabeth.

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