Prisoner of Debt (Morning Advertiser)

**toaster** · 19-07-2021, 7:17 AM

Originally Posted by christanel

Could Ira have been involved in building the Amiens railway which opened in 1846

"The railway from Paris to Lille is an important French 251-kilometre long railway line, that connects Paris to the northern French city Lille. Branch lines offer connections to Belgium and Great Britain. As one of the first railway lines in France, it was opened on 20 June 1846."
Also an interesting article here

Christina

Actually, it just occurred to me that the French Wikipedia article could have more information. Thiss is what I found (as translated from French):

"In 1834, the government instructed Vallée, engineer of the bridges and roads , to bring together the three kingdoms of France , from Belgium and England ."

So he very well could have been involved. I'll keep reading and see if there's anything else.

**fullscott** · 19-07-2021, 7:54 AM

3pm 20 Nov 1839
Declaration of birth/name

Father: IRA LAWTON, age 28y, Spinning Foreman, resident suburb of Ham?** in Amiens;
Male child, born at home today at 04h45
Mother: MARY ANN WOOLSTENHOLME, age 23y
Name of child: IRA
Witness: WILLIAM TWINTON/TWINLOW?, age 32y, Mechanic, resident (as above);
Witness: JOSEPH LENTY?, age 39y, Copper Moulder?, resident of the same borough, number 38*.

Sorry, I'm in a rush to get the washing out on the line!
*No idea what the "number 38" refers to - Amiens is in the Somme departement, which is no. 80.

Jane

Edit: **I should have looked at Wikipedia! "In 1913, (Amiens)had 38 clothing manufacturers" (which explains the "Spinning Foreman"). "... and the suburb of HEM dominated the textile industry"

**toaster** · 19-07-2021, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by fullscott

3pm 20 Nov 1839
Declaration of birth/name

Father: IRA LAWTON, age 28y, Spinning Foreman, resident suburb of Ham? in Amiens;
Male child, born at home today at 04h45
Mother: MARY ANN WOOLSTENHOLME, age 23y
Name of child: IRA
Witness: WILLIAM TWINTON/TWINLOW?, age 32y, Mechanic, resident (as above);
Witness: JOSEPH LENTY?, age 39y, Copper Moulder?, resident of the same borough, number 38*.

Sorry, I'm in a rush to get the washing out on the line!
*No idea what the "number 38" refers to - Amiens is in the Somme departement, which is no. 80.

Jane

Thank you! That helps a lot!

Spinning foreman - it doesn't sound very much like an engineer at all! If he was a foreman, he must have spoken pretty good French though, I guess.

**christanel** · 19-07-2021, 8:36 AM

Thank you so much for the translation Jane. It has been teeming down for days here so no washing line in use here.

Christina

**helachau** · 19-07-2021, 8:46 AM

The Amiens suburb looks like "Faubourg de Hem".

Just noticed "Hem" already appears above - but certain not there when I posted.

The document is a pretty standard format where those registering the baptism appear (comparu) before the delegated deputy (adjoint delegue) of the town/city mayor.

**helachau** · 19-07-2021, 12:53 PM

Witness "Joseph Lenty"

1851 Census
Joseph Lenty, age 49, Brass Founder, born Leeds.
With him is a son born Belgium, 1830

**toaster** · 20-07-2021, 6:48 AM

Just want to thank everyone so far! I'm awaiting a couple of GRO records.

There's not much else I've been able to find on findmypast/ancestry. I found a 1861 prison census record for a W.L. (engineer) at Devon County Prison (he eventually settled in Southampton). The age is in the same ballpark for Ira's son William, but not sure it's him. Question; If Ira had debt, he died, his wife and eldest son died, who would the debt fall to? Would it be posssible that William would get the debt?

**toaster** · 20-07-2021, 7:16 AM

Would it fall to the next eldest son and skip any daughters?

**toaster** · 20-07-2021, 7:27 AM

Originally Posted by toaster

Just want to thank everyone so far! I'm awaiting a couple of GRO records.

There's not much else I've been able to find on findmypast/ancestry. I found a 1861 prison census record for a W.L. (engineer) at Devon County Prison (he eventually settled in Southampton). The age is in the same ballpark for Ira's son William, but not sure it's him. Question; If Ira had debt, he died, his wife and eldest son died, who would the debt fall to? Would it be posssible that William would get the debt?

When I say "he eventually settled in Southampton", I mean my William Lawton did, and Devon County Prison is quite close.

I have been unable to find census records for William for 61 and 71. I found a record for a William Lawton working as a servant in London with a similar age, but not much else.

All of William's Census records give a different DOB. He was 45 in his first record in 1851 (which I'm inclined to believe the most), then he was 9 years older than the 1851 census in the '81 census, 3 years older in the '91 census, and 2 years younger in the '01 census. These three were with the same family in Southampton, so either he wasn't sure of his age, didn't care, or someone else always did the census information for him, or all three I guess. In the 1881 census, his place of birth is London, but in the two subsequent ones his birth is Birmingham.