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  1. #1

    Exclamation Help unravel a family mystery, please!

    My Great-Grandfather, Daniel McGovern, was born out of wedlock in 1910, to an Annie McGovern (1887), who later married another man (not Daniel's father) with the surname Kelly. Those that remember her recall her being taken advantage of by the man of the house that she worked in, as a housemaid, thus fathering Daniel, who kept his Mother's name.

    The only record I can find details Annie living at her parents' home in Old Swan, Liverpool, in 1911, with 1 year old Daniel. There was talk of her living in a Poor House, which seems to be corroborated by record, however the details are behind a paywall, so I am unable to access them. The surname of the man may be Shannon, but that could be hearsay.

    If anyone has any means of helping to discern who this man might be, where he may have lived (a house big enough to have house staff, probably in Liverpool, possibly in Old Swan, where Annie was recorded as being in 1911), I would be so, so obliged. It is a rather sad story and I would love to be able to share with my Grandad the answer to the family mystery.

    TIA

  2. #2
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    Annie McGovern - suffering from chest disease.
    Year 1901
    Age 14
    1887
    Liverpool
    Institution Mill Road Hospital (West Derby Union Workhouse)
    Daughter of John a mariner.
    Admitted 2nd July - discharged 17th September - cured
    93 Park Street,Bootle.
    Mother in Rainhill Asylum.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamelawagster View Post
    Annie McGovern - suffering from chest disease.
    Year 1901
    Age 14
    1887
    Liverpool
    Institution Mill Road Hospital (West Derby Union Workhouse)
    Daughter of John a mariner.
    Admitted 2nd July - discharged 17th September - cured
    93 Park Street,Bootle.
    Mother in Rainhill Asylum.
    Very interesting, thank you, where did you find this information? Is there a record you could send me a copy of? We have chest illness in the family now, would be interesting to see if it could be related.

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    The record was on Ancestry there is a photo image but I think T&Cs here re copyright might not be allowed plus I can’t upload images onto here as I’m useless technically.

  5. #5
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    Were Annie,her father John & Daniel with the Farrell family on 1911

    Who did Annie marry? Did Annie have a middle name? As there’s another Annie McGovern around the same area and time.

    Am I on the right track here with the 1911 census?
    Last edited by Pamelawagster; 05-07-2021 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Removed some info

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosieday View Post
    Very interesting, thank you, where did you find this information? Is there a record you could send me a copy of? We have chest illness in the family now, would be interesting to see if it could be related.
    The actual record can be found on Findmypast (FMP) in the dataset Liverpool Workhouse Registers.
    FMP may be available for free via your local library (you can often sign in at home), otherwise you can take out a free 14-day trial, though remember to untick the auto-renew box otherwise your bank account will get a shock.
    Pamela has given you all the relevant details from the Register.

    Note that by asking her to send you a copy of the record that you are asking her to breach the conditions of her subscription to that company. An action that could result in her membership being cancelled.
    Our T&Cs say

    "Look-ups"
    For the avoidance of doubt -this forum strictly forbids users to advertise or solicit ‘lookups’ from copyrighted work held elsewhere.
    so although it doesn't specifically say, it includes asking for copies of images.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamelawagster View Post
    The record was on Ancestry there is a photo image but I think T&Cs here re copyright might not be allowed plus I can’t upload images onto here as I’m useless technically.
    How strange. I thought it would be on Ancestry, but couldn't find it there, but found it on FMP.

    You are correct re copyright, and you also have to consider that by copying images and then sending them to someone else you are technically in breach of your subscription which I suspect is like mine -for personal use. (I believe professional researchers pay a different subscription, which allows them to copy images for their clients.)

    rosieday - Ancestry also is often available for free through your local library, and they also have a free 14-day trial. Again, make sure you untick the auto-renew box unless you want your bank account to get a shock.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamelawagster View Post
    Were Annie,her father John & Daniel with the Farrell family on 1911 census.

    I’ve just noticed on the workhouse records it states C of E as religion,looking at a baptism for Daniel he was baptised Roman Catholic and can see a marraige of Mary McGovern to Thomas Farrell which again is Roman Catholic.


    The workhouse record may not be the correct Annie unless religion is incorrect.

    Who did Annie marry?

    Am I on the right track here with the 1911 census?
    Yes, that is Annie living with Farrells on the 1911 census, and I believed them to be Roman Catholic, as were of Irish origin, but my Grandad doubts they were highly practicing or devout, so it could be incorrect. The surname of the man she married was Kelly, and they seem to have had three children together, Daniel was the only McGovern.

    The question of the Farrells is interesting, as my Grandad's maternal Grandmother, Margeret Devine, was born a Farrell, but this seems to be the wrong side of the family, as Daniel, Annie and the other McGovern's were on his father's side (Daniel was his dad). That is something I have never got to the bottom of, nor can I find the marriage of Mary McGovern to Thomas Farrell.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    The actual record can be found on Findmypast (FMP) in the dataset Liverpool Workhouse Registers.
    FMP may be available for free via your local library (you can often sign in at home), otherwise you can take out a free 14-day trial, though remember to untick the auto-renew box otherwise your bank account will get a shock.
    Pamela has given you all the relevant details from the Register.

    Note that by asking her to send you a copy of the record that you are asking her to breach the conditions of her subscription to that company. An action that could result in her membership being cancelled.
    Our T&Cs say


    so although it doesn't specifically say, it includes asking for copies of images.

    Pam

    Very sorry Pam, I'm knew to this but it was very unfair of me to ask. I do have an ancestry subscription myself so can see censuses etc. but not the workhouse, asylum or hospital records. Do you know where these could be found please?

    I am very grateful for the help, gradually I am being able to put together a timeline of Annie's life, but it seems to be raising just as many questions as answers! I didn't not know her mother had been in the asylum, that is very sad and I would like to learn more about that.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    How strange. I thought it would be on Ancestry, but couldn't find it there, but found it on FMP.

    You are correct re copyright, and you also have to consider that by copying images and then sending them to someone else you are technically in breach of your subscription which I suspect is like mine -for personal use. (I believe professional researchers pay a different subscription, which allows them to copy images for their clients.)

    rosieday - Ancestry also is often available for free through your local library, and they also have a free 14-day trial. Again, make sure you untick the auto-renew box unless you want your bank account to get a shock.

    Thank you Pam, I have just had a look and as I am a university student I can actually get Ancestry for free, so will cancel my trial! Might look for a local library for FMP though, as it seems most of the things I am looking for could be on there.

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