Help unravel a family mystery, please!

[Pam Downes]

The 1901 Census also has an Annie McGovern, born Bootle, aged 14, as a working inmate at The Liverpool Seaman Orphan Institution in Orphan Drive, Newsham Park. Liverpool.

RG13, Piece 3502, Folio 175, Page 10.

Pamela’s find may be the same person, as she entered the workhouse after the census was taken.

There is a birth record for an Annie Margaret McGovern in 1886, D Qtr, West Derby, Vol 08B, Page 440, Mother’s maiden name Neilson.
Bootle was in West Derby registration district.

Peter

Just seen Pam had already posted birth details.

It would make perfect sense for Annie to be here if her father was/had been a sailor.

Remember that the workhouse entry for Annie said her mother was in Rainhill Asylum?

1901 census reference RG13/3527 folio 176 page 23. Rainhill Asylum (though FMP have managed to spell it Rianhill).
E McGovern, widow, 46, born Sweden.

Is she listed as a widow in error? But in which case why is Annie in the Orphans' Institution?
It makes sense for Esther to be a widow, and Annie an orphan.

But that would mean that the John and Annie McGovern found with the Farrell family in 1911 aren't the John-who's-a-seaman-and-his-daughter-in-1891.

Need to join a few more dots.

[Jomot1]

Isn't this the Mcgovern family in 1901
Census ref RG13 3502 32 55

Certainly looks like them to me.

In 1891 they are at Spring Field Street, West Derby RG12/3000/139/60
John McGovern 41 General Labourer b West Derby
Mary A 38 Spinner
John 14 (?) Rope Maker
Annie 6
Mary 4
Ellen 6m

MCGOVERN, JOHN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 558
MCGOVERAN, ANN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 620
MCGOVERN, MARY ANN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 595
MCGOVERN, ELLEN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 600

John McGovern m Mary Ann Ryan 1873, West Derby

[elsinore]

But in which case why is Annie in the Orphans' Institution?

She's there as an employee, not necessarily as an orphan.

Peter

[helachau]

To me, Ellen, age 20 in 1911 was the key.

[rosieday]

Wow, you guys are fantastic! Yes, details in family stories are often hazy, but it definitely seems that Daniel was born out of wedlock as he had his mother's maiden surname, and there seems to be a connection with a Shannon. Whether or not it was the master of a house, or a boss, or anyone is difficult to discern.

Swedish Esther has also been mentioned, which is in line with what family members remember. I am going to try and speak to my Great Aunt who has a better memory for this kind of thing than my Grandad, though incidentally they were both in an orphanage in Formby around 1945.

I would like to find more about her mother in Rainhill- is that listed as Ester or Mary? Our family tree may have the wrong mother down for Annie, getting her confused with what seems like the OTHER Annie McGovern.

[Pam Downes]

EVERYONE TAKE A DEEP BREATH!

We need to go back to the original post in this thread.

My Great-Grandfather, Daniel McGovern, was born out of wedlock in 1910, to an Annie McGovern (1887), who later married another man (not Daniel's father) with the surname Kelly. Those that remember her recall her being taken advantage of by the man of the house that she worked in, as a housemaid, thus fathering Daniel, who kept his Mother's name.

The only record I can find details Annie living at her parents' home in Old Swan, Liverpool, in 1911, with 1 year old Daniel. There was talk of her living in a Poor House, which seems to be corroborated by record, however the details are behind a paywall, so I am unable to access theM.

Ignore for the time being Annie being in a Poor House.
I think we have to work back from that 1911 census entry, and 'forget' everything else that's been posted because I think some of it refers to another Annie, who also has a father John.

RG14/22645 SN106
24 Maddocks Street, Old Swan, Liverpool
Thomas Farrell, 26, bricklayer,
Mary, wife, 23,
Annie, daur, 3,
Thomas, son, 2
John McGovern, boarder, 60, widower, bricklayer's labourer
Annie McGovern, boarder, 25, spinner
Ellen McGover, boarder, 20, spinner
Daniel Mcovern, 1,
All allegedly born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Thomas and Mary Farrell married four years, had two children, both of them still living.

Old Swan is in West Derby registration district.

ADDED;
And while I'm typing that, rosie blithely types about 'Swedish Esther'.
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
I am going for food and drink and I may be some time.

[Jomot1]

I believed them to be Roman Catholic, as were of Irish origin, but my Grandad doubts they were highly practicing or devout, so it could be incorrect. The surname of the man she married was Kelly, and they seem to have had three children together, Daniel was the only McGovern.

They were definitely Catholic - Annie married William Kelly 21 Apr 1919 at St Oswalds (RC), Liverpool. Their names are in Latin - Gulielmum Kelly (father = Patritii)of 23 Mill Lane, Old Swan & Annam McGovern of 13 Salisbury Street (father = Joannes). Witnesses were Joannes McGovern of 13 Salisbury Street & Mary Smith of 29 Mill Lane.

[rosieday]

EVERYONE TAKE A DEEP BREATH!

We need to go back to the original post in this thread.


Ignore for the time being Annie being in a Poor House.
I think we have to work back from that 1911 census entry, and 'forget' everything else that's been posted because I think some of it refers to another Annie, who also has a father John.

RG14/22645 SN106
24 Maddocks Street, Old Swan, Liverpool
Thomas Farrell, 26, bricklayer,
Mary, wife, 23,
Annie, daur, 3,
Thomas, son, 2
John McGovern, boarder, 60, widower, bricklayer's labourer
Annie McGovern, boarder, 25, spinner
Ellen McGover, boarder, 20, spinner
Daniel Mcovern, 1,
All allegedly born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Thomas and Mary Farrell married four years, had two children, both of them still living.

Old Swan is in West Derby registration district.

Thank you for the summary, I have that census record and have been desperately attempting to piece things together. As John here is recorded as a widow, could he have been married to Esther (of Sweden), who passed away, or is this John of wife Mary?

[Jomot1]

I don't think we need to forget everything that's been posted - just everything about the John the Sailor & his family!

RG14/22645 SN106
24 Maddocks Street, Old Swan, Liverpool
Thomas Farrell, 26, bricklayer,
Mary, wife, 23,
Annie, daur, 3,
Thomas, son, 2
John McGovern, boarder, 60, widower, bricklayer's labourer
Annie McGovern, boarder, 25, spinner
Ellen McGover, boarder, 20, spinner
Daniel Mcovern, 1,


1901 22, Queen Street, West Derby - RG13 3502 32 55 (as posted by Helachau)
John McGovern 50 General Labourer
Mary a 48 wife
Ann 15 daur Rope Spinner
Mary 13 daur
Ellen 10 daur
Catherine Splaine 60 Border

1891 Spring Field Street, West Derby RG12/3000/139/60
John McGovern 41 General Labourer b West Derby
Mary A 38 Spinner
John 14 (?) Rope Maker
Annie 6
Mary 4
Ellen 6m

MCGOVERN, JOHN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 558
MCGOVERAN, ANN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 620
MCGOVERN, MARY ANN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 595
MCGOVERN, ELLEN mmn RYAN GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 600

John McGovern m Mary Ann Ryan 1873, West Derby

[Jomot1]

nor can I find the marriage of Mary McGovern to Thomas Farrell.

There is a Catholic marriage for them at St Oswald's, Liverpool on 21 Apr 1907 - names are again in Latin

Thomam (Thomas) Farrell of 4 Vincent Street, father also Thomas
Mariam (Mary) McGovern of 14 Maddox Street, father Joannes (John)
Witnesses: Joannes Farrell, 4 Vincent Street & Anna McGovern of 14 Maddox Street