Irish genealogy - Margaret Flemming b1834

[DoreenH]

Dear everyone
I have tried many website but to no avail.

trying to verify birth of Margaret and/or marriage of her parents.

According to Aust marriage cert.
Margaret Flemming born 1834 Auldcourt, Kilkenny married John Stewart 1874 Victoria Australia. she lists her parents as: Nicholas Flemming and Margaret Gruze.
but I cannot find any of these to confirm.

hoping someone can help.
thanks
Doreenh

[christanel]

Hi
I have been looking at this brickwall of yours spasmodically over the last couple of days but like you am not having any luck at all for any of the names mentioned.
Christina

[helachau]

Hi
I have been looking at this brickwall of yours spasmodically over the last couple of days but like you am not having any luck at all for any of the names mentioned.
Christina

Me too.
In the absence of an "Auldcourt, Kilkenny" I've been looking at "Oldcourt" as a likely alternative. The dates you are interested in predate Civil Registration in Ireland.
I did spot the death registration on Irish Genealogy of a Margaret Fleming (one "m"), 15 May 1879, age 84, widow (of a farmer), place Sheastown, Kilkenny. Sheastown and Oldcourt not far from each other.

Struggling with a Nicholas death - but could have died pre 1864 (start of civil death registration).

Has your checking "many websites" included Irish Parish Registers? I was going there next to see if period/region covered!

[helachau]

Re. Irish Parish Registers, the Parish of Inistioge looks promising. Have spotted a couple of references to "Oldcourt".

[suemalings]

Is this the Margaret Fleming who travelled to Australia with Jane (or could be Janet) in 1854?

If so it gives their native place as Co. Tyrone and parents as John Snr and Mary. Relations in the colony are two uncles, John and James Griffin (?). I can't read the rest!

They sailed on the vessel China and originated in Straw, Ireland.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Griffiths Valuation (1850) lists a Nicholas Fleming farming plots 2 & 3 in Oldcourt, Kilkenny. Oldcourt is in the civil parish of Clonamery.

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffi...ion=nameSearch

There was still a Flemming there in 1901:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.i...court/1454112/

Possible death for Nicholas registered in Thomastown in 1868, aged 70.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

Clonamery is in the RC parish of Inistioge. Their baptisms start in 1810 and marriages start in 1827.

[DoreenH]

dear elwyn
Yes, the death for Nicholas Flemming in Thomastown is correct.
I also found the birth and death of daughter Bridget. born 24 Se 1820 Inistoige, Kilkenny died 9 NMov 1889 Thomastown Kilkenny.
According to parish baptisms, father Nicholas Flemming, mother Margaret Grace (not Gruze).
also found sister Anastacia born 23 Nov 1817 Oldcourt, Inistoigue. brother Patrick born 29 Dec 1823 same parish.
Possible other siblings Bridget and Mary bapt 1828 Inistoigue.
But stil cannot find bapt of Margaret nor marriage of Nicholas and Margaret.
still looking.
Doreenh

[Elwyn Soutter]

Doreen,

I should think that the reason you can’t find Nicholas & Margaret’s marriage is because the records don’t exist. I mentioned that the parishes marriage records don’t start till 1827. They were evidently having children well before that and so likely married around 1815 or so. So over 10 years before the records start. No way round that I am afraid.

Re Margaret’s baptism, having you been searching the originals, or just using the transcripts on rootsireland or Ancestry? I ask because some of the transcripts have mistakes and omissions Gruze for Grace being an example. I find some baptisms are in the originals but not in the transcripts. So worth double checking the originals on the nli site in case Margaret was overlooked. Also if there are any pages missing or years missing, that could be another explanation. Plus some are just too faded to transcribe. All possible explanations.


ELWYN

[DoreenH]

Dear Ekwyn
thankyou, I checked the parish records online via oldcourt kilkenny records.
once again thanks
Doreen

[Elwyn Soutter]

Doreen,

I am not familiar with “oldcourt Kilkenny” records but the original RC parish records for Inistioge (the RC parish that includes Oldcourt) can be found here:

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0980

If her baptism isn’t there, then you probably have to chose between the usual possible alternatives:

i) she wasn’t baptised (not very likely for a Catholic family);
ii) the priest forgot to enter it in the register (that certainly happened, and I have seen registers with gaps where the priest apparently intended to fill names in later but never did);
iii) it’s faded and illegible now
iv) she was baptised somewhere else.