Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 43
  1. #1
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    65

    Default Birth before Marriage Maybe?

    I have a bit of a puzzle I cant get my head round.

    I have a relative, Albert Harrison (Born 1865, GRO Ref: Vol 06A, Page 242, S Quarter) married to Maria Bullock. They Married 20th Dec 1891

    They are 3 children I have linked to them. One is Elizabeth Ellen Harrison (GRO Ref: Vol 06A Page 265, D Qaurter)

    But the other 2 children are puzzling me.

    Albert Joseph, Born 27th Sept 1888 (GRO Ref: Vol 06A, Page 268, D Quarter), and Baptised 19th Dec 1888. But he is baptised as a Bullock and only shows his mother Maria on the baptism record.
    1891 Census shows him as living with Mother (Maria Bullock), Grand Mother (Lydia Vallunder - she was a Bullock but seems to have remarried), and his sister (Lyida Bullock)
    However, he is then down as Albert Harrison on the 1901 census (RG 13/2427) and 1911 Census and seems to even have WW1 Pension record against him as Albert Harrison. THEN he seems to change back to Bullock for his marriage to Edith A Hutt on 21st Aug 1921.

    This is similar for the other child, Lydia Maria Harrison Bullock born 22nd March 1891 (GRO Ref: Vol 06A Page 291, J Qaurter), who is Baptised on 3rd June 1891 as a Bullock again (although has Harrison in her name this time), and only her mother Maria is on the Baptism Record.
    1891 census is same as above.
    She also seems to be down as surname Harrison on the same 1901 and 1911 census as above, and on her Marriage certificate (to francis stephens)


    I was wondering what is going on here?
    Could Albert senior and Maria have had Albert and Lydia before Marriage, and as it was so frowned upon she hid it?
    Why would Albert not keep the Harrison surname, but Lydia did?
    Could Albert not be the father and they were just given his name when him and Maria married?

    Many thanks

  2. #2

    Default

    If the parents were not married at the time of the births, they would have been registered under the mother's surname. Do you have the birth certificates?

    If their mother then married, it was common that they would often be raised under her husband's surname.
    He might have been the father - maybe they could not marry earlier. He might not.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    9,620

    Default

    Rusty - go and stand in the corner and write out a thousand times 'I must remember to include places and years'.

    Harrison is a fairly common name, and although YOU know where your people were living/baptised/whatever, we don't. e.g.
    One is Elizabeth Ellen Harrison (GRO Ref: Vol 06A Page 265, D Qaurter)
    Volume and page number are basically irrelevant to us (though obviously highly relevant to you when recording details) but we do need year and registration district.

    Funnily enough I saw the Lydia Vallunder census earlier when I was looking for the siblings of Mary Ann Harrison in 1901/1911. Will have to try and find it again.

    There's a possibility that you may have got two Alberts confused. Will have to probe a bit further.

    Meanwhile, what details are given on Albert and Maria's marriage certificate in 1891 regarding his occupation and the names and occupations of both of their fathers.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #4
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    9,620

    Default

    Albert Joseph, Born 27th Sept 1888 (GRO Ref: Vol 06A, Page 268, D Quarter), and Baptised 19th Dec 1888. But he is baptised as a Bullock and only shows his mother Maria on the baptism record.
    1891 Census shows him as living with Mother (Maria Bullock), Grand Mother (Lydia Vallunder - she was a Bullock but seems to have remarried), and his sister (Lyida Bullock)
    However, he is then down as Albert Harrison on the 1901 census (RG 13/2427) and 1911 Census and seems to even have WW1 Pension record against him as Albert Harrison. THEN he seems to change back to Bullock for his marriage to Edith A Hutt on 21st Aug 1921.
    I've been re-readng this, and I think it's me getting confused. (Too many Alberts. )
    I was thinking you were referring to Albert the father marrying Edith in 1921 but you mean Albert the son who was born in 1888.

    As Lesley has already pointed out, if the parents weren't married the usual procedure was that the child would be registered with the mother's surname.
    There was no formal adoption until 1926/1927, so sometimes after the mother married the child would take the surname of the mother's husband, especially if the husband was also the father of the child.
    Often the child would then retain his 'new' surname for the remainder of his life. Sometimes, like my great grandfather, and from the sound of it Albert Joseph, they reverted to their surname at birth. (I won't say how many times I went through the 1861 surname index for registration districts in south Lincolnshire looking for an illegitimately-born great-granddad with the surname he had in 1851 and 1851, before I found him by recognising a very badly misspelt birthplace and him using his mother's maiden surname.)

    Did Albert-born-1888 continue to use Bullock for the rest of his life after he married Edith?

    As to why he reverted to Bullock while sister Lydia didn't, it was down to individual choice.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  5. #5
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Apologies, thought I had put most years down

    Elizabeth Ellen was born in 1895

    All mentioned, and most of the wider family at that time are in the Gloucester area

    It looks like Albert did use his Bullock name for the remainder of his life. There is an Electoral record of 1925 that has a Albert Joseph Bullock on it (Gloucester)
    Also there seems to be a death record in 1926 for Albert J Bullock, in Gloucester.

    I don't have any of their Birth Certificates unfortunately, but mind be worth ordering them

  6. #6
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    9,620

    Default

    It's recommended that you obtain BMD certificates for your direct ancestors.
    For their siblings, it's not quite so important but sometimes a certificate can help prove something you're not sure about.
    I obtained all the birth and marriage certificates of my parent's siblings because I wanted to know the occupation of my grandfathers at various times, as well as confirming exactly where my father was living when his siblings were born. (I knew my mum's siblings were all born in the same house as she was.)
    Only ever buy certificates direct from the GRO
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
    or from the local registrar's office.
    If you use FreeBMD and click on the name of the registration district, you eventually get taken to a page which tells you where the registers are currently held. This is the one for Gloucester registration district. https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/gloucester.html
    Click on the link, and then scroll down to the relevant name. Most of the offices have a website.

    The advantage with the GRO site is that you can get a black-and-white PDF copy of birth certificates up to 1920, and death certificates until 1957. They're not as classy as the certified certificates but they are considerably cheaper. (Seven quid as oppose to eleven.)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #7
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    65

    Default

    I found the marriage cert for Albert Joseph Bullock in Ancestry's Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938 dataset.

    27 August 1921 at St Mark's, Gloucester. (Though described at top of register entry as parish church in the parish of St Mark's, Kingsholm in the county of Gloucestershire.)

    Albert Joseph Bullock, 32, bachelor, labourer, 6 Suffolk Street. Father Albert Bullock, deceased.

    Edith Alice Hutt, 21, spinster, no occupation given, 6 Suffolk Street. Father Henry John Hutt, labourer.

    Married by banns.

    Interesting, Albert has entered his father as Bullock (deceased) and not Harrison

    The two witnesses are his Sister Elizabeth Ellen Balland (nee Harrison) and the husband, francis stephens, of his other sister Lydia Maria Harrison Bullock

    6 Suffolk Street is also the address of his Parents Albert and Maria Harrison in the 1901 census (RG 13/2427)
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 10-07-2021 at 5:21 PM. Reason: Image of PR entry removed and details typed instead'

  8. #8
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    65

    Default

    another possible fact

    Albert Joseph Bullock (or Harrison) died in 1926, and I think his wife Edith Alice Bullock remarried in 1944

    September quarter 1944 Gloucester registration district.

    Edith A Bullock and William Price.
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 27-06-2021 at 8:21 AM. Reason: Image removed and details typed instead

  9. #9
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Oddly, and could this point to there being 2 Edith Alice Bullocks in Gloucester, but there is an electorial record of Edith living at the same address as some called Harry Bullock


  10. #10
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    9,620

    Default

    To what year does that electoral roll refer?

    I suggest that you search for Edith Alice Bullock, living in Gloucester in the 1939 Register.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: