Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Aberystwyth
    Posts
    4

    Default John Maurice Thomas c1874

    Hello

    I'm totally new to geneology. I've literally just accessed the England and Wales 1911 census, to find out if my great grandfather spoke Welsh or not, which it says he did! I'm descended patrinlineally as a Carmarthenshire Thomas. a John Maurice Thomas was my great grandfather, born in Llanboidy parish in around 1874 (listed as 37 in 1911) If I take this further it could be hard work as there are so many Thomas' in Carmarthenshire!
    This branch of the family were farmers, which I already knew, but I was not expecting 'servants' to be listed on the census. Surprisingly the two female domestic staff were also Thomas' including a 'Phoebe Britania Thomas', a wonderful period name is it not?. There were two male staff, a 'Horseman' and a 'cacr man'. I really want to know what a cacr man was (I may be mis-reading the handwriting). All I know was that he was 15 and it was a mainly a dairy farm. Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Aberystwyth
    Posts
    4

    Default

    .. It could be related to cachu (a Cymraeg word for poo), so this lad's job may have mucking out the cows. Does this sound plausible?

  3. #3
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wairarapa New Zealand
    Posts
    10,108

    Default

    Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums
    First of all I have moved your post to the Carmarthenshire forum and given it the title John Maurice Thomas c1874 Carmarthenshire. It will get more views in this forum I think. If you want the title changed just say.
    The name Phoebe Brittannia Thomas intrigued me so I looked on FreeBMD for her birth registration and there was only one then I went on the GRO index for her birth registration because the GRO index gives the maiden name of the mother and this is it.
    Phoebe Brittannia THOMAS, mother's maiden name LEWIS
    GRO Reference: 1895 Sept Quarter registration district NARBERTH Vol 11A Page 1169
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wairarapa New Zealand
    Posts
    10,108

    Default

    I think you will find John Maurice c 1874 birth was registered as John Morris Thomas Sept 1/4 1873 reg dist Narberth vol 11a page 817. On the GRO index the mother's maiden name is Phillips. There are two other birth registrations for this name, one in Haverfordwest 1873 mmn Morris and the other in Bangor 1873 no mmn given so an illegitimate birth.
    The Narberth one looks most likely to be yours.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    England
    Posts
    810

    Default

    It says Cow Man on Farm (William Edwards)

  6. #6
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    England
    Posts
    810

    Default

    The newspaper report of his marriage to Anna Elizabeth Owen says he was from Forest (Fforest), Whitland had a brother named Howard Morgan Thomas, who was best man: https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...02/4358109/56/

    Howard Morgan Thomas is much easier to find in the census - born c1879. Parents were John (a farmer of 264 acres) and Anne nee Phillips, who I think married in 1864

    1881 Census Ref: RG11, Piece 5402, Folio 9, Page 11
    1891 Census Ref: RG12, Piece 5421, Folio 8, Page 9
    1901 Census Ref: RG13, Piece 5117, Folio 8, Page 8

    THOMAS, JOHN MORRIS mmn PHILLIPS GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in NARBERTH Volume 11A Page 817
    THOMAS, HOWARD MORGAN mmn PHILLIPS GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in NARBERTH Volume 11A Page 801

  7. #7
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Aberystwyth
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Wow! Thank you all so much for the fascinating information.
    Phoebe Britania is then a truly unique name and it makes sense that she was a local girl going into domestic service. It looks like her occuptaion was listed as Nurse, my family had a number of young children including a 1 month old aunt of mine listed as 'Baby', I guess she wasn't baptised yet.
    I would guess the Narberth one is more likely, sadly missing out on all the fun illegitimate birth stuff!
    Cow man, of course, makes a lot of sense.
    Yes, Fforest Farm, Whitland is the 'old homestead' and is still a dairy farm, though no longer in the family.
    Thank you all again, so much. Geneology is fascinating!

  8. #8

    Default

    First, a warm welcome to Brit-gen.
    Welsh newspapers' on line https://newspapers.library.wales

    If you pop "thomas forest" (include the " " as part of key) in Search it returns 476 hits. Click on filter "Region" and select "West Wales" - returns 275 hits and well worth browsing through.

    The first entry returned should be "Marwolaeth J Thomas, Forest, Ger Whitland" (Y Tyst a'r Dydd, 3 Aug 1883). I believe this is John Thomas, father of John Morris/Howard Morgan. Anne Thomas is shown as married in '91 and widow in '01 but John not part of '91 household.
    It's in Welsh but note your location is Aber and you were showing an interest in Welsh speaking in 1911 - so assume you'll be OK?

    pob lwc
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  9. #9

    Default

    The Welsh newspapers' search page is headed "Tithe maps, Newspapers, Journals, etc".
    There is a key article in "journals" - click on it. In search enter "gan 7 parch w thomas" (again including the " " as part of search key). Returns 1 hit - again in Welsh.

    Names his wife as "Anne Phillips". Even notes his mother in law!!
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  10. #10
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Aberystwyth
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    First, a warm welcome to Brit-gen.
    Welsh newspapers' on line https://newspapers.library.wales
    Diolch yn fawr iawn, Thank you very very much.

    The Welsh language is kind of what got me curious. I started learning Welsh a few years ago and am now reasonably fluent. Some of the language in these period newspapers will be a little bit of a struggle mind. It looks fascinating so far, shooting accidents and the like!
    My grandfather never gave any indication to me of his understanding of Welsh when he was alive. However his brother did, my uncle was always keen to hear what Welsh I was learning in school, living in Surrey in the pre-internet era left him separated from the language. Yet the family were growing up in the Whitland era in the early 1900s, surely there was plenty of Welsh around them? So I am curious as to what happened, how the language was lost from the family and why it skipped three generations before I picked it up again!
    It seems John M Thomas died relatively young, soon after the family moved to SE England, setting up a mixed arable / dairy farm there, it's intriqing. I wonder what I can find out!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: