John Craven, C 1796 immigration from Germany

[arthurk]

The 'S Baker' for John's occupation on at least two of the baptisms is sugar baker. (Deduced from entry on opposite page of John junior's baptism.)

That's interesting - there were a lot of people with German origins working as sugar bakers in London. You can read about them here:

https://www.mawer.clara.net/intro.html

From a quick look at the database, there are numerous entries for the surname Craven, some going back before your John would have been born. There appears to be a lot of other information too, which I didn't begin to explore.

I still suspect they were of German origin, with the surname probably Grawen or similar, which they changed on coming to England. The fact that John was born in Germany might indicate that they arrived in several waves, possibly to join existing family businesses, or else he might have been born while his parents were on a visit back to their homeland.

[gilian rowland]

If John/Johann was about 45 years in the 1841 census he was born c1796 which is the year you think he came from Germany. Out of interest how do you know that?

I wondered if there is a reason for that journey ie religious War etc so came across the Rhine Campaign of 1796 - there is a very lengthy article on Wiki but one sentence at the beginning refers to "The French military strategy against Austria called for a three-pronged invasion to surround Vienna, "

not sure if this has anything to do with your search.!

Also I googled Charles Street Stepney and there is a posting by someone re a shop there in 1913. But the article refers to the Migration Museum in London (which I have never heard of!) perhaps they can help

[tim-timothy]

That's interesting - there were a lot of people with German origins working as sugar bakers in London. You can read about them here:

https://www.mawer.clara.net/intro.html

From a quick look at the database, there are numerous entries for the surname Craven, some going back before your John would have been born. There appears to be a lot of other information too, which I didn't begin to explore.

I still suspect they were of German origin, with the surname probably Grawen or similar, which they changed on coming to England. The fact that John was born in Germany might indicate that they arrived in several waves, possibly to join existing family businesses, or else he might have been born while his parents were on a visit back to their homeland.

Arthur, The link didn't work for me. Anyone else have a problem?

[Squaredancer]

I got a message saying the website refused to connect.

[Pam Downes]

I never fail to be amazed by the most obscure websites people find and arthurk's is the latest.

I too had problems connecting to the site so resorted to the usual 'try the Wayback Machine' method.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210224...net/intro.html
As arthurk says, loads of Cravens, and I also checked out the names beginning GR, too.
One of the John Craven entries relating to three baptisms in Whitechapel refers to the John of this thread.
The documents listed as PRO; IR23 refer to documents now held at The National Archives (previously the PRO - Public Record Office) in the section Land Tax Redemption Office: Quotas and Assessments
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...owse/r/h/C9361

The reference against James Craven of Duncan Street - LMA THCS Rate Books - refers to records held at LMA - London Metropolitan Archives. The TH part almost certainly refers to Tower Hamlets which is Whitechapel, Stepney, Mile End area.

There's also a link (menu on left-hand side of page) to an interesting article about German migration.

Pam

[arthurk]

The link to the Sugarbakers site starts with http rather than https, but the forum software seems to be converting it automatically to https.

There are two ways round this:
(a) use the link as shown but when you get the error message remove the 's' from https and then hit Enter/Go.
(b) copy and paste the following plain text link, then Enter/Go:

www.mawer.clara.net/intro.html

Meanwhile, thanks to Pam for finding the archived version.

[tim-timothy]

Wow, I don't even know where to begin! The way back method is my new favorite thing! You'll have to forgive my lack of intelligence in these matters, but I do love learning. So can we assume that James is the father of John? John and Alice had a child William James born 1827. Maybe a clue?

[Pam Downes]

Wow, I don't even know where to begin! The way back method is my new favorite thing! You'll have to forgive my lack of intelligence in these matters, but I do love learning. So can we assume that James is the father of John? John and Alice had a child William James born 1827. Maybe a clue?

No.
John says he was born in Germany so you do need to look there for possible records.
I would also suggest that you do more searching of the earlier Whitechapel parish registers for Craven/Craver/names beginning GA and/or GR to see if you can find any further clues.
Did you also check out the names beginning GA/GR in the list on arthurk's database?

Pam

[arthurk]

As well as what Pam says, I found some will transcripts on the sugar bakers website. These are linked to from the main surname index. I don't think the two I looked at were directly relevant to your chap, but they might help you get a picture of the broader family.

[tim-timothy]

Well no luck with the GA-GR category on the sugar baker website.