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  1. #1

    Default James Patrick LAWRENCE c 1843 Salford

    Hello friends! I'm helping a friend do some research on her family tree. I found her 3x great grandparents on the 1891 census, and a few parish birth for their children. The problem comes with the father, James Patrick Lawrence born about 1843 in Salford, Lancashire. He died in 1900 in Poplar England where the rest of his wife and kids were living at the time. As you would expect in the 1901 census his wife Marian(Mary Ann)is listed as a widow. But in the 1881 census the wife and kids are living with Mary Ann's mother and brothers(Eliza Wallis) but James is no where to be found. Also something strange, James and his children are listed in the parish records as having the word "highland" written above the surname. and the kids took it on as a middle name it seems, If anyone can guide me in the right direction, I would be very appreciative! Any further info can be provided if need be.

    Thank you!

    Tim

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Just some info to get us started
    1891 RG12 Piece 334 Folio 46 page 41
    No 92 tenement Arnold's building, Poplar
    James Lawrence 48 general labourer Salford, Lancashire
    Marian Lawrence 44 King's Cross London
    James Lawrence 15 Coil worker, wire Limehouse
    Robert Lawrence 11 Newcastle on Tyne
    Thomas Lawrence 4 Poplar
    Emma Lawrence 3 Poplar
    George Lawrence 1 Poplar
    Charles Lawrence 13 Limehouse

    It is James, Charles and Robert who are with their mother Mary Ann in the 1881 census.
    There is a big gap between the births of Robert 1880 and Thomas 1887, so where was James in 1881?
    Christina
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    Hi Tim,

    I've changed the title of this thread to James Patrick LAWRENCE c1843 Salford to avoid any confusion with your previous thread which had exactly the same title you originally gave to this one (Hello from America....help needed) but which was about a different subject.

    If you would prefer a different title, just say so, but including at least a name is always more helpful than just 'Help please' - there must be almost thousands of threads headed like that.

    ADDED:
    Also something strange, James and his children are listed in the parish records as having the word "highland" written above the surname. and the kids took it on as a middle name it seems.
    Highland was included in the given names of Emma born February 1888, George born 1890, and William Thomas (registered as Thomas William Highland) born July 1886, and James Patrick junior (born 1876) when their births were registered, so it may well be a family surname. e.g. the surname of one James' senior's grandparents. Nothing unusual about that.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    I hope this doesn't confuse matters

    the parents of George Philip Highland Lawrence (or LAURENCE), Emma Louisa Highland Lawrence,and William Thomas Highland Lawrence - are James Patrick Highland Lawrence/Laurence and Miriam Beatrice Christina Lawrence/Laurence

    baptism records on Anc*stry

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    Bearing in mind that the childrens' mother's maiden name is Wallis, I think I've found the marriage of James and Mary Ann/Marianne. It's in Ancestry's London marriages dataset.

    2 February 1873, Parish church of St Marylebone.
    Patrick HIGHLAND, of full age, bachelor, engineer (perhaps telling a little porkie there!), living St Marylebone. Father Michael HIGHLAND, gardener.
    Marianne WALLIS, of full age, spinster, no occupation given, St Marylebone. Father Thomas WALLIS, steward.

    Pam
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    Marianne Eliza Lawrence, mmn WALLIS, born 1st quarter 1874 - Poplar

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    Pam, that's just fine. I wasn't sure what to call it myself! Thank you!

  8. #8

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    Pam, So you are saying that Lawrence may be the actually surname but Highland a ancestral surname? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand it. Thanks for having patience with me. My family is Russian so searching English records is kind of new to me, but since I love genealogy I told my co-worker I'd be glad to help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim-timothy View Post
    Pam, So you are saying that Lawrence may be the actually surname but Highland a ancestral surname? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand it. Thanks for having patience with me. My family is Russian so searching English records is kind of new to me, but since I love genealogy I told my co-worker I'd be glad to help.
    I'm saying that somewhere in the family tree the name Highland, as well as the name Lawrence appears.
    In my tree for example, my great-grandfather was illegitimate, but he was baptised on the same day his parents married and was given his father's surname in the PR. (This was in 1830, pre-civil registration.)
    So he's shown as George Popple. However in the 1861 census, and when he married (and died) he's reverted back to his mother's maiden name of Smith. But he gave his children the middle name of his father's surname, so they were Frank Popple Smith and Edith Popple Smith. (Incidentally, those children's names, plus George's birthplace in the 1861 census are the only ways I was able to confirm the change of surname and positively identify him in the 1841 and 1851 census.)

    See post number 5 re what I think is the marriage of James and Mary Ann/Marianne, when James used not only his middle name of Patrick, but also the Highland surname.

    Sometimes the link to an 'historical/ancestral' surname goes further back. Say in 1775 5x great-granddad William Brown married Alice Grantham. One or more of their children may have been given the middle name of Grantham, and it continued down the years. e.g. eldest son was named John Grantham Brown; he named his son William Grantham Brown, who in turn named his daughter Mary Grantham Brown, etc.

    Hopefully my waffle has made things slightly clearer than mud.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #10

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    This is very helpful and points me in the right direction. Do you all think its possible to dig any further into James family tree. I think the marriage record found of PATRICK HIGHLAND and Mary Ann Wallis is surely the right one. Thank you for that, Pam. I understand more clearly the explaination of the surnames. I just wish people would have used just one first name and one last

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