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  1. #1

    Default Birth Registered in Two Different Districts.

    I wonder whether anyone can help me with this.

    There are two records in the Civil Registration Index for one child.

    I wonder why this might be. I've checked it on the GRO website and there definitely are two entries.

    Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:

    POVEY, SAMUEL PATTERSON CONNELL
    GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 23

    POVEY, SAMUEL PATTERSON CONNELL
    GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 390

    This child has the name of his father as his first and second names, and the surname under which he's registered is the surname of his mother's husband.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2

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    This query opens a remarkable number of questions!

    I assume that you are saying that bio-Dad and Mother's husband (call him step-Dad for brevity) are 2 different men? How do you know who bio-Dad was, apart from the child's name? Which man was she living with at the time of the birth? When did she marry step-Dad? Who registered the birth? Were the 2 registrations districts where the 2 Dads were living?

    Legally, unless specifically registered, the father of the child is the one the mother was married to at the time of the birth.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post

    I assume that you are saying that bio-Dad and Mother's husband (call him step-Dad for brevity) are 2 different men? How do you know who bio-Dad was, apart from the child's name? Which man was she living with at the time of the birth? When did she marry step-Dad? Who registered the birth? Were the 2 registrations districts where the 2 Dads were living?

    Legally, unless specifically registered, the father of the child is the one the mother was married to at the time of the birth.
    This is quite complicated and I will try to explain it as simply as possible.

    Yes the first two names are that of the Bio father, and the surname is that of the legal father.

    Bio-dad and his wife (Mum) and children lived in the Liverpool registration district and Legal-dad and Mum lived in West Derby and had several children.

    Legal-dad died in 1898, but before he died, Mum gave birth to a child fathered by bio-dad. This child was registered to legal dad. This was the child born before the one I am enquiring about.

    The child in question was actually conceived and born *after* the death of legal-dad.

    Bio-dad's first wife died in 1900 and then the mum of child in question moved in with bio-dad with the two children that were his biologically and all the other children from her first marriage.

    I know there were 2 children born to to mum by bio-dad before they actually married.

    Legal father died, and the mother of the child then married bio-father in 1900 after his wife died

    The child was baptised at St Peter's Parish Church, Liverpool. With the legal father listed as his father, and the address was in Bootle, which is West Derby.

    I don't know exactly where she was living at the time, she stated she was living in the home she lived at with legal dad, but he was dead. I also thing bio-dad's wife left him before she died, and so mum and bio dad may already have been living together.

    I was wondering whether the mother may have registered the birth in both districts with different information in order to protect the child in some way. At that time she may not have been 100% sure that bio-dad's wife would die or that bio-dad would marry her.

    Is this something that happened?

    I hope this makes sense.

  4. #4

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    On the 1901 census, there seems to be a lot more children with the surname Povey living at the same address as Samuel Patterson (age 50). They are step-daughters and step-sons. Have you seen this? Baby Samuel is 1 year old.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemalings View Post
    On the 1901 census, there seems to be a lot more children with the surname Povey living at the same address as Samuel Patterson (age 50). They are step-daughters and step-sons. Have you seen this? Baby Samuel is 1 year old.
    Hi,

    I have seen the census but donít have a have a copy if it to refer to now. Joseph and Samuel are Samuelís children. I think all Marthaís children are there and I think all Samuels children are elsewhere living with older siblings.

  6. #6

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    My compliments on a beautifully clear story. In my experience, if ancestors can make things complicated, some of them will!
    I’m wondering about the registration districts - how they chose which to go to. Who actually registered the births, and signed the registration? I was hoping that would provide a clue....

  7. #7
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    Default

    You need to order both birth certificates to find out exactly what information was recorded. At the moment, for example, you don't seem to know who registered the births. Might one of the registrations stem from the institution (if any) where the child was born? Again the certificates will shed more light here.

    As you already know, this oughtn't to have happened. However, things that ought not to happen, sometimes do happen.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post
    My compliments on a beautifully clear story. In my experience, if ancestors can make things complicated, some of them will!
    Iím wondering about the registration districts - how they chose which to go to. Who actually registered the births, and signed the registration? I was hoping that would provide a clue....
    Thank you.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    You need to order both birth certificates to find out exactly what information was recorded. At the moment, for example, you don't seem to know who registered the births. Might one of the registrations stem from the institution (if any) where the child was born? Again the certificates will shed more light here.

    As you already know, this oughtn't to have happened. However, things that ought not to happen, sometimes do happen.
    Thank you. I understand that to really know I will have to buy the birth certificates. I was just curious to know whether this was something that might happen under certain circumstances.

    That’s a good point that she may have had the child in the workhouse hospital and they may have registered the birth. I’ve seen that happen a lot in Ireland but not yet come across it here.

    Thanks very much. I’ll post again when I know more.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farawa View Post

    ............ and the surname is that of the legal father.
    And also probably the surname of the mother, if she was a widow.

    Before 1969, birth registers (in England/Wales) don't show ANY surname for the child.

    Births are indexed under the surnames of one (or both)of the parents named on the entry, depending on their marital status.

    You need to get certificates from both entries to see what happened - one possibility is that she originally registered in the wrong district, and then had to re-register the birth in the correct one ( an error of that kind can't be dealt with by a simple correction).

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