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  1. #1

    Default Esther Emily mason nee Gibbs

    Hi
    Really stuck if anyone can help
    Trying to find birth and family details for my great great grandmother

    Things I know
    On my g grandmothers birth certificate and her marriage it states Esther Emily mason (nee gibbs)
    On census records her birth was in pembury Kent in 1867/68
    Her death was in Brighton in July 1945

    I did find 1 record in the 1871 census for a an Emily Gibbs in the tonbridge work house along side a Maria (mum) and siblings francis, Alice and Mary.

    Really stuck and hoping someone with more knowledge can solve her birth and family details please thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Hello Sally,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    Just to clarify (and to save people wasting time searching for details you already have):
    Esther Emily Mason nee Gibbs is your great-grandmother, and you want details of her mother, your great-great-grandmother, who you believe from a census record for 1871 to be called Maria.

    On my g grandmothers birth certificate and her marriage it states Esther Emily mason (nee gibbs)
    If you have Esther's birth certificate then it will give the name of at least her mother, and hopefully a father and his occupation. Also, if her parents were married it will give Esther's mother's maiden name. What are those details?

    Are you just wanting details just about Esther's mother, or her father as well? Either way, details of Esther's father and occupation as given on her marriage certificate would be helpful.

    I'm assuming that Esther is the one whose marriage is registered as just Esther (with no middle name) to William (no middle name) Mason in September quarter 1886 in Tunbridge registration district.

    In 1901 William H, aged 34, born Lingfield, Esther E, 30, born Pembury, and children Edith (12), Mary L (10), and
    Frederick W (6) are living in Tunbridge Wells. Census reference RG13/754 folio 115 page 39.

    1939 Register
    Esther E Mason, birth date 26 December 1868, widow and Edith A Mason,single, birth date 8 July 1888, are living Queens Road, Tunbridge Wells.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3

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    Thank you so so much for your reply.Esther is my great great grandmother. The trouble is I can’t find Esther’s birth to order the certificate. The only thing I could do was order Mary lily mason’s certificate (my great grand mother) which gave me esthers maiden name Gibbs. Yes she did Marry William mason on the exact dates you stated. I’ve managed to trace all of my family back to the 1600’s plus but can’t on Esther prior to the marriage. I have tried playing around with middle and first names but still stuck. Honestly this is such a grudge for me as this is the only part of my family tree that ends so quickly. So grateful for your reply thank you

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    This may be it:

    Esther Emily GIBB b. Tonbridge 1867, Q4, Vol 2A, Page 529, mother’s maiden name Lippard.

    Note the surname spelling.

    The Findmypast transcription has it as Tunbridge Wells but the GRO transcription is Tonbridge.

    Peter

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    This may be it:

    Esther Emily GIBB b. Tonbridge 1867, Q4, Vol 2A, Page 529, mother’s maiden name Lippard.

    Note the surname spelling.

    The Findmypast transcription has it as Tunbridge Wells but the GRO transcription is Tonbridge.

    Peter

    Thank you sooo much 😀

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    This may be it:

    Esther Emily GIBB b. Tonbridge 1867, Q4, Vol 2A, Page 529, mother’s maiden name Lippard.

    Note the surname spelling.

    The Findmypast transcription has it as Tunbridge Wells but the GRO transcription is Tonbridge.

    Peter
    First of all, Sally, don't get too excited about Peter's find because it's a year out from Esther's birth year in the 1939 Register. However, birth years do differ for people born in the 1800s - sometimes deliberately, others because they truly didn't know which year they were born.

    However, bearing in mind the 1871 census entry you found, and the names in it, there's a marriage in March quarter 1860, East Grinstead registration district Francis Gibbs and Maria Leopard.
    You should know that East Grinstead and Tunbridge Wells aren't that far apart (about fifteen miles) so it's a high possibility.

    What details does it give about Esther's father on her marriage certificate?

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Re Francis Gibbs and Maria Leopard marriage (just in case it's relevant)

    1861 census
    Living Crowfield, East Grinstead. Census reference RG9/579 folio 56 page 2
    Francis Gibbs, 36, ag labourer, Pembury
    Maria, 28, Horsted Keynes
    Harriet Leppard, daur, 11, West Hoathly
    Owen Leppard, son, 8, West Hoathly
    Emma Leppard, 6, West Hoathly
    Sarah Leppard, 4, East Grinstead
    John Leppard, 3, East Grinstead
    Francis, son, 1, East Grinstead
    Baby Francis like the other children above him has 'do' (for ditto) after his first name, but his birth registration was in the name of Gibb (no final 's') June quarter 1860, East Grinstead registration district, mmn Leppard.

    Note that living next door is Charles Lippard (sic) and his family. Charles is 32 and born Horsted Keynes. Highly likely to be Maria's brother.

    There's the death registration of a Francis Gibb, aged 39, June quarter 1864, Cuckfield registration district, but that would mean that Francis wasn't Esther's father.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Re Francis Gibbs and Maria Leopard marriage (just in case it's relevant)

    1861 census
    Living Crowfield, East Grinstead. Census reference RG9/579 folio 56 page 2
    Francis Gibbs, 36, ag labourer, Pembury
    Maria, 28, Horsted Keynes
    Harriet Leppard, daur, 11, West Hoathly
    Owen Leppard, son, 8, West Hoathly
    Emma Leppard, 6, West Hoathly
    Sarah Leppard, 4, East Grinstead
    John Leppard, 3, East Grinstead
    Francis, son, 1, East Grinstead
    Baby Francis like the other children above him has 'do' (for ditto) after his first name, but his birth registration was in the name of Gibb (no final 's') June quarter 1860, East Grinstead registration district, mmn Leppard.

    Note that living next door is Charles Lippard (sic) and his family. Charles is 32 and born Horsted Keynes. Highly likely to be Maria's brother.

    There's the death registration of a Francis Gibb, aged 39, June quarter 1864, Cuckfield registration district, but that would mean that Francis wasn't Esther's father.

    Pam
    Thank you it wasn’t adding up on her marriage certificate had Francis Gibb who I know to have died a few years before her death. Her birth certificate states no father and Maria as a widow. I think I will never get the answeres for this one 🤦*♀️

    Now struggling to find her mums birth Maria, on Esthers birth certificate it states formally lippard also formally leppard. Her first marriage the records state to William leppard wed Maria leppard. Also her birth year on the census ranges from 1825-1833 but I cannot locate her at all prior to her marriage. I know the name lippard is common in Germany and my dna profile locates my genes to Hesse. Which site do you use to locate your information as I’m struggling thank you

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    Possible for Maria!

    Name: Maria Leopard
    Baptism Date:18 Jun 1826
    Baptism Place:Horsted-Keynes, Sussex, England
    Father:
    William Leopard
    Mother:
    Lydia Leopard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallypoulter View Post
    Thank you it wasn’t adding up on her marriage certificate had Francis Gibb who I know to have died a few years before her death.
    So to confirm, you have the marriage certificate of Esther Emily Gibbs, where she says her father is Francis Gibbs, but it's highly likely he died in 1864, several years before she was born.
    Her birth certificate states no father and Maria as a widow. I think I will never get the answeres for this one ��*♀️
    Unless there is a reference in the parish register if Esther was baptised or you can find a bastardy order, then, yes, I think her father's name will forever remain unknown.

    Now struggling to find her mums birth Maria, on Esthers birth certificate it states formally lippard also formally leppard.
    It would appear that there are quite a few variations of the spelling of the surname so be prepared to think outside the box when researching earlier records. .

    Her first marriage the records state to William leppard wed Maria leppard.
    Do you have a copy of this certificate, either from the parish register or from the GRO? If not, as Maria is a direct ancestor, it is advisable to get one, just to (hopefully) prove her father's name. (And also provide William's father's details too.) They married March quarter 1845, Cuckfield registration district.
    ADDED: See next post.

    Also her birth year on the census ranges from 1825-1833 but I cannot locate her at all prior to her marriage.
    Ages back in those early days can vary. Sometimes because people truly couldn't remember when they were born, but also there is the possibility of enumerator error, when perhaps the age on the original household schedule said 28 but was transferred to the enumerator's schedule (which is what we see for 1841-1901) as 23. But if other details such as birthplace and/or other family members, stack up then don't worry about it.

    I know the name lippard is common in Germany and my dna profile locates my genes to Hesse. Which site do you use to locate your information as I’m struggling thank you
    Can't comment on the German aspect but I know Leppard is a Sussex name.

    The commercial site I use most often is Findmypast (FMP) as I find their transcriptions are usually of a better standard than Ancestry, though FMP do have their moments, too. You can often access either FMP and/or Ancestry free through membership of your local library, and in many cases you can sign in at home. You can't get access to all the records the site(s) hold, but you can get the main ones.

    The free site I use the most is FreeBMD which is a work-in-progress (though mainly complete for July 1837- December 1983) transcription of the GRO Index for births, marriages, and deaths.
    More recently the GRO has provided a more complete index for the early births and deaths (mother's maiden names, and ages at death from 1837) as well as adding further years including the more recent ones from about 2006 onwards which are not available on any of the commercial sites.
    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp

    Also free are FreeCEN and FreeREG for the census and parish registers. FreeCEN might be completed in my lifetime, FreeREG won't. I know there are millions of entries to be transcribed for FreeCEN, but there are even more millions in FreeREG.

    FamilySearch also has many records, mainly parish registers. Some transcription only, some with images as well. You have to create an account, but you don't have to give any credit card details which proves that it's free.
    https://www.familysearch.org/en/

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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