Kinsella/Carroll

[Pam Downes]

I have now found him (hopefully) Elizabeth went to the USA in 1915.
His birth record shows him just as a male Condon mother Elizabet living in a hotel no father. Records show an E Condon 23 and a G Condon 1 yr 1 month coming back to Labamolagga in February 1919 New York to Liverpool.

Still no idea where the Carroll came into it.

Don't forget that the marriage certificate to Joseph Kinsella said that she was Elizabeth Carroll, widow, not Elizabeth Condon, spinster, therefore the implication is that she married someone with the surname Carroll, quite possibly while Gerald was quite young.
Although it's not guaranteed 100% complete at the moment, I can't see a Condon/Carroll marriage on FreeBMD, so I would suggest you look in Ireland.
Strangely, I've thought there must be an Irish connection somewhere ever since we found the electoral rolls with all O;connor and Shea surnames.

Pam

[grisel]

Great that you have found Gerald's birth record and immigration.
There could be several possibilities for the Carroll name - such as -
1 Elizabeth could have returned to her family as 'widow'Carroll with Mr Carroll a possibility as Gerald's birth father, and remained known as Mrs Carroll.
2 Elizabeth married a Mr Carroll in England or Ireland (no marriages found yet)
3 Elizabeth had a relationship with Mr Carroll but they did not actually marry
4 Elizabeth married a Mr X and later married a Mr Carroll.

It would be useful if she were living in England at the time of the 1921 census as that may offer more clues.

[sookie23]

So far I can't find a record or a Carroll/Condon on the Irish records.
I'm going with grisel on option 3 of the Carroll link, now to wait for the 1929 census.

I'm going to email the records office in Boston tomorrow regarding a copy of the certificate, there may be more information on there. There is a form to fill in on line and they phone you back for payment, cant see them calling me in England will cost more then the certificate.

[Sandyhall]

marriage certificate

26 June 1937 Register Office district of Willesden county of Middlesex

John Kinsella 48 widower general labourer 21 Greenhill park Harlesden Lawrence Kinsella Labourer
Elizabeth Carroll 40 widow cook same address Patrick Condon shoeing smith.

I think the children can de disregarded.

Not to sure I believe she ever married a Carroll, its just a gut feeling I have.

You should find them on 1939 census then

[Sandyhall]

This is what I've found a Elizabeth Condon age 16 with her 2 sisters Catherine age 10 and Ellen age 5 went to America together on the ship "New York" on the 1st Sept 1915 leaving Liverpool.

1918 - A Miss E Condon had a son in (no name on birth)

1919 - Miss E Condom (waitress age 23) with son Master G Condon (age 1 1/2)come back to Liverpool on the ship "Baltic"

A some time she marries a Mr. Carroll and her Son Gerald Condon changes his surname to Gerald Carroll

Elizabeth Carroll then marries John Kinsella in 1937 • Willesden, Middlesex, United Kingdom

[Pam Downes]

You should find them on 1939 census then

See post #20, and #15. Elizabeth and John are living in Talbot Road, Neasden in 1939.

[sookie23]

Another update

DNA has come in and its saying 2% Irish, which if Gerald was from an Irish mother I'm sure the percentage would have been a lot higher, plus no matches on that side of his family on Ancestry. I did eventually find a lots of relatives for the Kinsella woman, but not one hit with the dna.

Makes me wonder now if Gerald was the father.