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  1. #11
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Do yo have a death date for Sarah Kinsella/Carroll?

    I did see this one which would mean Sadie gave birth to Gerald when she was 17 and of course Sarah Carroll is not an uncommon name but the Manchester death reg caught my attention because of the Reginald Kinsella marrying there in 1938
    Sarah Carroll Age 31
    Birth Date about 1901
    Death Registration April 1932 June 1/4
    Registration District South Manchester Lancashire
    Vol 8d Page 220

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  2. #12

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    I have no other details about Sadie just that she was alive in 1965.

  3. #13
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sookie23 View Post
    many thanks for the replies

    I have no idea where she was born or who are parents are. I ordered the marriage certificate this morning.

    the address was written as Mrs Kinsella 39 Burns Road, Harlesden, London


    I believe her and Joseph Carroll divorced as a later census show him living with a different wife. So I've no idea if Kinsella was her maiden name or her name from her first marriage.

    My husbands nan had a child with the Gerald born in 1918 they never married she went by the name Mrs Carroll so who knows if she got the idea from Sadie?

    Gerald born in 1918 died in 1963

    Sian
    London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
    At 39 Burns Road Harlesden
    1946 Elizabeth M Kinsella, Mary A O'Connor, Michael Connor (image name), Mary C Fahey, Thomas Flynn and Michael McCarthy
    1947 Elizabeth M Kinsella, Mary A O'Connor, Michael O'Connor, Mary C Fahey and Thomas Flynn
    1953 at 39 Burns Road Harlesden were Elizabeth M Kinsella, Stephen Green and Patrick J Mannion.
    1956 39 Burns Street, Elizabeth M Kinsella, Stephen Green, Lena M O'Connor, Mary A O'Connor, Michael O'Connor and Cornelus (image spelling)Sheahan

    The London, England, Electoral Registers say they go up to 1965 but the last date on them for any Kinsellas anywhere in Harlesden London is 1960.

    Searching for surname only in London, England, Electoral Registers 1965 only there are 359 results, adding the first name Sarah/Sadie gives 3 results but none of them are in Harlesden
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  4. #14
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
    2 Copenhagen Street Islington South West
    Joseph Kinsella and Sarah Kinsella, also Victor and Melia Auld.

    ancestry has a transcription entry for a Sarah Kinsella at 37 Station Approach Spelthorne in 1965 but the image doesn't even have that house number for Station approach or a Sarah Kinsella entry for that street address.
    The third result is the same, a transcription but no entry for a Sarah Kinsella or any other Kinsella on the image given.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #15
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    These may, or may not, either give pointers or else muddy the waters still further. Take your pick.

    Willesden parish and Harlesden are adjacent.

    An Elizabeth Carroll married a John Kinsella, June quarter 1937, Willesden registration district.

    1939 Register has a John Kinsella, born 1881, and wife Elizabeth, born 1898, living at 18 Talbot Road, Neasden,
    Willesden M.B (Metropolitan Borough).

    Death registration for a John J Kinsella, Willesden registration district March quarter 1942, but his age of 65 doesn't fit the one in the 1939 Register.
    A better fit is the John Kinsella, died age 65, December quarter 1945, Uxbridge registration district. though Uxbridge is a few miles away from Willesden/Harlesden.

    This would be a close match for Elizabeth (no middle initial), aged 69, death registration December quarter 1966, Brent registration district. (Brent registration district was created in 1965 by re-naming Willesden registration district.)

    Do you have a death date for Sarah Kinsella/Carroll?

    I did see this one which would mean Sarah gave birth to Gerald when she was 17 and of course Sarah Carroll is not an uncommon name but the Manchester death reg caught my attention because of the Reginald Kinsella marrying there in 1938
    Sarah Carroll Age 31
    Birth Date about 1901
    Death Registration April 1932 June 1/4
    Registration District South Manchester Lancashire
    Vol 8d Page 220
    Above quote from Christina post #11.

    My mother's cousin had a sister-in-law (who I knew) who was known as Sadie. Turns out that her real name was Sarah.

    I have come to the conclusion that the Kinsella and Carroll surnames must be in the ten most common names in England.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  6. #16

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    I have come to the conclusion that the Kinsella and Carroll surnames must be in the ten most common names in England.

    Pam[/QUOTE]


    My tree is full of John's, Joseph's and Mary's.

    If her real name was Sarah etc could she have gone by Sadie on a marriage certificate?


    I will pen to and paper write all this info down and have another hunt for her she is truly the thorn in my tree on my husband's side as I've got no further than the elusive sadie kinsella

    I cant thank you enough for your help.

    sian

  7. #17
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sookie23 View Post
    If her real name was Sarah etc could she have gone by Sadie on a marriage certificate?
    sian
    Basically you can call yourself whatever you like, as long as you have no intention to defraud anyone.

    My grandfather called himself Thomas Frederick on a naval document, his marriage certificate, and the birth certificates of his children. He was Thomas William on his birth and death registrations. (I did go into a mad panic at one stage when I thought his death certificate might have said Thomas Frederick and that we'd have to go through the hassle of getting it amended nearly forty years down the line!)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #18

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    Took me a while to find my dad, was being to think he was found under a bush. Only found him when I found his mums married. The joys of a family tree.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Sadie wasn't her real name.

    will look up all the details and see if any of them bring up Gerald.

    May also be worth me getting his marriage certificate.

  9. #19

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    I'm now looking into the the Carroll marrying the Kinsella as the marriage for Gerald (1918) put father as Gerald Carroll (deceased) so I've scrapped all records for the Kinsella/Carroll marriage I had.

  10. #20
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
    At 39 Burns Road Harlesden
    1946 Elizabeth M Kinsella, Mary A O'Connor, Michael Connor (image name), Mary C Fahey, Thomas Flynn and Michael McCarthy
    1947 Elizabeth M Kinsella, Mary A O'Connor, Michael O'Connor, Mary C Fahey and Thomas Flynn
    1953 at 39 Burns Road Harlesden were Elizabeth M Kinsella, Stephen Green and Patrick J Mannion.
    1956 39 Burns Street, Elizabeth M Kinsella, Stephen Green, Lena M O'Connor, Mary A O'Connor, Michael O'Connor and Cornelus (image spelling)Sheahan

    The London, England, Electoral Registers say they go up to 1965 but the last date on them for any Kinsellas anywhere in Harlesden London is 1960.

    Searching for surname only in London, England, Electoral Registers 1965 only there are 359 results, adding the first name Sarah/Sadie gives 3 results but none of them are in Harlesden
    Christina
    I wondered if any of the people at the same address as Elizabeth could be relatives. The most consistent people were Michael and Mary A O'Connor, who in 1956 were joined by Lena O'Connor. On the basis that Lena might likely be their daughter who had just turned 21 and would now be eligible to vote I found a birth registration for Lena O'Connor, mother's maiden name Murphy, September quarter 1931, Willesden registration district.
    Closely followed by a marriage registration for a Michael O'Connor and a Mary K Murphy in June quarter 1927, Willesden reistration district. Sadly, the marriage isn't in Ancestry's London marriages dataset.

    And literally, while I've been typing this message I had - check Burns Road inhabitants in the 1939 Register. (You can search by address on FMP.) Guess who's living at 39 Burns Road - Michael Connor(sic), Mary K O'Connor (amended from Maisie Connor), one redacted name who is highly likely to be Lena, Thomas O'Shea, Charles O'Shea, and Christopher Fahey.

    I was then further inspired to search for an Elizabeth Kinsella, and found one living at 18 Talbot Road, Neasden with John. Elizabeth born 20 May 1898 and John born 26 December 1881.
    I have a feeling that this 1939 info has previously been found but am too lazy to re-read both this thread and the other one to check.
    ADDED: See post #15 made by myself earlier in this thread. No wonder it sounded familiar!!

    I can't easily find Talbot Road on a modern map but looking at the maps found on FMP below the 1939 transcription Talbot Road is not a million miles from Burns/Burn's Road. (Found the latter on Google maps by searching for Roundwood Park and then moving due west. )

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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