Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 52
  1. #1

    Default Can't Find Grandma's English Birth Cert.

    Hi,

    I've been at this genealogy for decades and have a terrible brick wall that I can't get past. A bit of a longish background story... I'm not a pro researcher but have been trying my best. My research includes the surnames of: BARNES, JENKINS, WICKHAM, GEORGE.

    My great grandmother, Lucy JENKINS b.1860 Stondon, Bedfordshire, was a housekeeper to a Dr John Wickham BARNES for approximately 20 years. He was a prominent London surgeon and listed in Plarr's Lives of the Fellows. I've got lots on him purely out of interest, including the different census for that household. Dr Barnes was a widower and as it was, over the years, Lucy bore him 3 children - two boys and a girl and all given the surname of BARNES. So far, I can't find evidence of a marriage between them. They were different stations in life and I believe this is part of my research problem. Dr Barnes passed away in 1899 and I have his death cert. This left my great granny almost destitute and I've no idea where she went after he died. He had a few properties but I speculate that they were all left to the children of his first family. There was no will. However, one census puts her at South End On Sea, "Selling Sweets". I imagine the first family of Doctor Barnes wanted her gone? My dad always said that "the Masons" paid for her passage to Canada. I recall writing to them for some evidence of this and there was none - but that was 20 yrs ago now.

    But some point between 1899 and 1902, Lucy took up with a Henry GEORGE and gave birth to my grandmother in Brentwood, Essex, England, in 1902. My grandma's nickname was "Queenie" as she was called, but her real name was Mary GEORGE. Only recently, I had a EUREKA! moment as I found her christening in Essex in 1906 and in fact, she was christened along with her three half siblings all christened BARNES and Queenie was christened as Mary GEORGE. Perhaps that is before they took the journey to Canada. At this point, I've no idea where Henry GEORGE went. So, Queenie came to Canada as a young child with her mother and 3 half brothers, all with the surname of BARNES except for Queenie. I found the family on the early census in Toronto.

    Fast forward to 1919, when Grandma "Queenie" married my grandfather, Joseph GARNER, in Vancouver, British Columbia. I have the marriage certificate. Queenie had 3 children with my grandfather, Joseph. On their Vancouver birth certificates, Queenie's father is listed as Henry GEORGE and her mother is Lucy JENKINS. When the marriage failed, Queenie went to New Zealand where she lived her life and died in 1972. I have the passenger list. I have her on NZ voting registers and on the deed of her property, I have her NZ death certificate. All of grandma Queenie's documentation states the names of both of her parents, Father: Henry GEORGE and Mother: Lucy Jenkins.

    Funny thing. Occasionally, great granny Lucy would fudge her name with the census man in England - I believe in order to avoid detection that the 3 children with Dr Barnes were illegitimate. As stated, I have looked for years and cannot find evidence of a marriage. Oddly, I cannot find evidence of a marriage with Henry GEORGE who she stated was Queenie's father. On some of the marriage certs of Lucy's children in Canada, she would sign as either Lucy GEORGE or Lucy BARNES. On Queenie's christening, she wrote, Lucy WECKHAM" or something like that. I feel she was deliberately obfuscating. It's driving me nuts!

    My father as a Canadian soldier very interested in his family history while stationed in England during WW2. At the time, he managed to make it to St Catherine's House but could not find his mother Queenie's birth certificate nor could he find Queenie's father's Henry GEORGE documentation but perhaps he didn't know much then. Queenie was very quiet about her beginnings and would not share with him. Dad was a very early family historian before it became what it is today. I suggested to him that perhaps Queenie was Henry's child and not Lucy's. This type of family history discussion has been going on for years. Perhaps she was adopted? Truth, I haven't tried looking down that rabbit hole yet.

    In the early 1990s, me and my dad picked up his search and even visited England ourselves. We went to Chelmsford Record Office and St Catherine's at the time when records were stored there. We even went to Chancery Lane. Dad passed away in 1997 and I am getting old myself! I feel bewildered and a bit downtrodden, quite frankly. Where is my grandmother's 1902 birth cert? I know she existed as I knew her well and visited NZ many times as a child. I've searched the NZ records for her passport application when she visited us here in Canada in 1969 but unfortunately they said all those records were destroyed. I have her NZ death cert and property records and am at the bottom of the barrel now.

    A professional researcher charges thousands and I don't have that. Would anyone like to take a crack at this or give me some other avenue of investigation? I did a DNA test with Ancestry but as an amateur can't figure out what to do with all the 3rd, 4th cousin results. I'm a female so got my brother to do a test for the Y chromosome results thinking it would be a direct link to Henry GEORGE. I'm still stymied. I just need a good researcher now or help or something.. Phew!

    I'm sorry for the long screed and would be happy to answer any questions should anyone try to help. I'm grateful for this opportunity to tell my story.

    Thank You,
    Kathy












    H

  2. #2
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    8,488

    Default

    Hi Kathy,

    I might have demolished your brick wall. Just don't get too excited, as it all depends from where you got your
    Lucy JENKINS b.1860 Stondon, Bedfordshire,
    Though the address in the 1861 and 1871 census entries seem to fit.

    There is no 'Stondon' as such in Bedfordshire, but there is a Lower Stondon and an Upper Stondon. Lower Stondon is a hamlet in Shillington (also known as Shitlington).
    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/Shillington
    This is the rather brief description about Upper Stondon.
    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/UpperStondon
    You can get a better idea of the almost random shape of Shillington parish at
    https://www.familysearch.org/mapp/

    If Lucy was born in 1860, then she should be fairly easy to trace in the 1861 census. The only one I could find born in Bedfordshire 1860 +/- i year was the one living in Lower Stondon, Shitlington.
    Census reference RG9/999 folio 30 page 9.
    George Jenkins, 34, ag lab
    Charlotte, wife, 32, straw plaiter,
    Albert, son, 9,scholar
    Wilhelmina, daur, 6, scholar
    Arthur, son, 3,
    Lucy, daur, 1,
    Charlotte born Barton, Bedfordshire, everyong else born Shillington.

    1871 census.
    Census reference RG10/1553 folio 43 page 25. Lower Stondon, Shillington.
    Charlotte, widow, 42, straw plait maker
    Arthur, son, 13, ag lab
    Lucy, daur, 11, straw plait maker
    Ellen, daur, 8, straw plait maker
    Elizabeth, daur, 3, scholar
    George, son, 10 months,
    Emily Hyde, visitor, 19, straw plait maker
    Charlotte born Barton, everyone else born Shillington.

    Think this is George senior's death registration - March quarter 1870, Ampthill registration district. The age of 42 is slightly out compared to the 1861 census, but that's not unusual for that era.

    I looked for a birth registration for baby George, and in the new Index on the GRO's website found George Jenkins, June quarter 1870, Ampthill registration district, mother's maiden name Hutchins.

    Searching for other Jenkins children with mmn of Hutchins registered in Ampthill registration district found:
    Elizabeth, December quarter 1867. (Fits the one in 1871)
    Ernest, September quarter 1865. (Death registration, aged 1, March quarter 1867.)
    Agnes Helen, September quarter 1862. (Would fit Ellen in 1871.)
    Thirza Lucy, March quarter 1860
    Walter, June quarter, 1857. (Possibly the Arthur in the 1861 and 1871 census.)

    GRO website (which is also where you order BMD certificates from) https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp

    The absence of birth registrations for the other children is not unusual because prior to 1874 not all births were registered.

    ADDED: Forgot to say that Shillington is in Ampthill registration district.
    https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/ampthill.html

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    cambridge
    Posts
    657

    Default

    Is that your tree on Ancesty

  4. #4
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    3,327

    Default

    I am assuming that in the 1891 census she is living at Bolt Court, St Dunstan in the West, City of London, and described as being a married housekeeper called Lucy Wickham.

    If that's correct then I think that her sons Ernest and John's births were registered under the name Wickham:

    WICKHAM, ERNEST WILLIAM Mother's maiden name: JENKINS
    GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in LONDON CITY Volume 01C Page 13

    WICKHAM, JOHN Mother's maiden name: JENKINS
    GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in LONDON CITY Volume 01C Page 16

    A Lucy Jenkins married a John Wickham in 1889 in the same registration district as that where her son's births were registered.

    Dorothy's birth was registered in Essex:
    BARNES, DOROTHY CHARLOTTE Mother's maiden name: JENKINS
    GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in TENDRING Volume 04A Page 635

  5. #5

    Default

    My grandma's nickname was "Queenie" as she was called, but her real name was Mary GEORGE. Only recently, I had a EUREKA! moment as I found her christening in Essex in 1906 and in fact, she was christened along with her three half siblings all christened BARNES and Queenie was christened as Mary GEORGE.
    Where did you find the baptism for Mary George?

    Courtesy of 'Ancestry: Essex, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1918'
    Name: Mary Queene Barnes
    Age: 4, born 6 Jun 1902
    Baptised 30 Mar 1907
    Brentwood, St. Thomas of Canterbury'
    Father: John Wichham [sic] Barnes
    Mother: Lucy Barnes

    So, Queenie came to Canada as a young child with her mother and 3 half brothers, all with the surname of BARNES except for Queenie.
    On the 1911 census for Canada Mary is listed with surname BARNES.
    Alma

  6. #6

    Default

    Please can you say where you got the surname George for Mary?
    Alma

  7. #7
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nottinghamshire England
    Posts
    1,178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    Please can you say where you got the surname George for Mary?
    Queenie Mary GEORGE, age 18, spinster, born Brentwood, England. Father Henry GEORGE an Engineer, Mother Lucy JENKINS.
    Married in Vancouver on the 11th October 1919 to Joseph GARNER.

    Bride signs as Queenie Mary BARNES and this is corrected to GEORGE.
    Witnesses include Lucy George BARNES.

    Source: Familysearch British Columbia Marriage Registrations - images.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch in Notts View Post
    Queenie Mary GEORGE, age 18, spinster, born Brentwood, England. Father Henry GEORGE an Engineer, Mother Lucy JENKINS.
    Married in Vancouver on the 11th October 1919 to Joseph GARNER.

    Bride signs as Queenie Mary BARNES and this is corrected to GEORGE.
    Witnesses include Lucy George BARNES.

    Source: Familysearch British Columbia Marriage Registrations - images.
    How very confusing!
    Alma

  9. #9
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nottinghamshire England
    Posts
    1,178

    Default

    Yes. I've searched the birth indexes for Billericay which contains Brentwood searching without a surname for Mary & Queen* 1901-1902, separately but nothing.

    I wonder if the surname GEORGE was actually used prior to 1919 - the Mother knew who the Father was but registering the birth under that surname wasn't possible - in which case why can't we find anything under Barnes or Wickham!

  10. #10
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    England
    Posts
    762

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    Where did you find the baptism for Mary George?

    Courtesy of 'Ancestry: Essex, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1918'
    Name: Mary Queene Barnes
    Age: 4, born 6 Jun 1902
    Baptised 30 Mar 1907
    Brentwood, St. Thomas of Canterbury'
    Father: John Wichham [sic] Barnes
    Mother: Lucy Barnes
    The transcription in FMP expands on this and names the father as John Wickham Barnes, Surgeon Deceased. The address at the time of baptism was 18 Ehase Road, which I think should be Chase Rod.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: