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  1. #1

    Default Ada Ward (Nee McCarthy)

    Hi All,
    My Grandmother I was told was born 1878 in Portsmouth, father unknown. Her mother then married a soldier on his way to India, it is possible that she went with him and Ada was left at Nazareth House in Portsmouth. At some point we believe she may have married John Thomas Woodward from Southwell Notts. but living in Peckham around 1894 when she would have been 16 yrs. old.
    Any info on these people would begreatly appreciated.
    Geordielad70

  2. #2
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Trying to do family history without properly joining the dots will only result in you going down the wrong road.

    Start with the birth certificate of either your mother or father, whoever is the child of Ada.
    If they were born in England or Wales there will be a column for the father's name (e.g. Zebedee Smith), and one for the mother's, the latter saying (if the parents were married) Ada Smith formerly Brown, indicating that her maiden name was Brown. If the mother had been married twice that column should read Ada Smith formerly Johnson nee Brown.

    You then look for a marriage for the parents (it's handy if you know the years of birth of any siblings of your parent - either in her maiden name, or if she's previously been married with that surname.

    Can't see a John Thomas Woodward marrying an Ada in the London area circa 1896.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    John Thomas Woodward, age 26, bachelor, father Thomas Woodward an engineer married Rebecca Kate Copelin age 18, spinster 24 March 1894 St. Andrew, Peckham, Surrey - father William Copelin an accountants clerk. Witnesses Herbert Copelin and William Copelin.
    1911 census Piece: 2778
    75 Malyons Road, Ladywell, Brockley, London S E
    John Thomas Woodward 42 Engineer Southwell, Nottingham,
    Ada Woodward 39 Portsmouth married 8 years married 5 children born to the marriage, all living
    Thomas William Woodward 15 Peckham
    John Woodward 4 Peckham
    Frederick Woodward 2 Peckham
    Annie Mitchell 17 Peckham

    Thomas William's baptism 9 July 1896 give his mother's name as Rebecca Kate Woodward as does Dorothy Louisa's baptism and mother's maiden name Copelin on the GRO birth index. See her below in 1901 census, Also on John Edward's.

    1901 census
    Piece 510 Folio 25 Page 38
    John T Woodward 32
    Rebbeca K Woodward 25
    Dorothy L Woodward 2

    There is a birth registration for a Leonard Charles Woodward, mother's maiden name (mmn) Copelin September 1/4 Camberwell 1901 vol 1d page 921 also a Kate Jesmond Woodward 1905 mmn Copelin
    Dorothy and Leonard are with their father's parents Thomas and Elizabeth Woodward in the 1911 census although the census records as them relations not grandchildren.

    The Frederick Woodward birth appears to be the one registered in Camberwell reg dist March 1/4 1909 mmn Ward and this is the only one with that mmn of all the children.
    Rebecca Kate Woodward nee Copelin doesn't appear to die until 1957
    Rebecca K Woodward
    Death Age 81
    Birth Date about 1876
    Registration Date - Jan 1957
    Registration District: Wandsworth London
    Vol 5d Page 819

    The death registration also appears to be registered under the name Hopgood with the same district, volume and page numbers.
    And here is Rebecca Kate in the WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Rebecca K. Woodward
    Relation to Soldier: Unmarried Wife
    Description: Other Ranks Died Hooper FA-Hopkins E
    Wm Thomas Hopgood
    Rebecca K. Woodward - Unmarried Wife

    The original image is on Fold 3 on ancestry but I don't have a subscription to it.

    Now it appears Rebecca Kate nee Copelin and John Thomas Woodward parted ways sometime after the birth of Kate Jesmond Woodward mmn Copel in 1905.
    It is also very likely that John Thomas and Ada nee Ward/McCarthy did not marry as divorce was very expensive back then and we do know that Rebecca's death was registered in the name of Woodward and Hopgood so she was not divorced.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1911 census
    83 Clarence Road, St Pancras
    Piece: 673
    William Hopgood 30 Billiard marker/Maker?
    Rebecca Hopgood 33 married 6 years, 2 children to the marriage, one living.
    Winifred Hopgood 2

    Birth
    HOPGOOD, WINIFRED REBECCA mmn COPELIN
    GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in LAMBETH Vol 1D Page 299

    William Hopgood
    Birth Place Earley, Berks
    Residence - Wandsworth
    Death Date 9 Feb 1917
    Death Place France and Flanders
    Enlistment Place Wandsworth, Surrey
    Rank: Private
    Regiment Essex Regiment
    Battalion 2nd Battalion
    Regimental Number 35433
    Type of Casualty Died of wounds
    Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

    The only Ada Ward I can see at the moment is one born in Yorkshire.
    Where did you get the name McCarthy from?

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
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    Birth Registration:
    MCCARTHY, ADA No Mother's maiden name
    GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 470

    No Mother's maiden name means that she was illegitimate.
    Portsea Island is the registration district that would apply for Portsmouth up until 1900.

    Birth certificates can be ordered on line direct from the Government (which is the best way of doing so) from: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

  6. #6

    Default

    Christina thank you so very much that's a lot of info you dug up, much appreciated.
    Geordielad

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks Megan.
    Geordielad

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks Pam.
    Geordielad

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Death
    Katie Jesmond Woodward
    Estimated Birth Year - abt 1906
    March 1/4 1906
    Age at Death: 0
    Registration District: Camberwell. London
    Vol 1d Page 573

    Now Rebecca Woodward nee Copelin in the 1911 census says that there are two children of her common law marriage to Hopgood but one has died.
    Ada Woodward states in 1911 that she and John have been married 5 years and there are 5 children to the marriage all still living. They have 3 children with them and 2 living with their paternal grandparents.
    So was Kate Jesmond actually the child of Rebecca and William Thomas Hopgood.
    We also know from the birth indexes that all the children listed as being to the (supposed) marriage of John Woodward and Ada are not the children of Ada, only Frederick born 1909 is registered to her with the maiden name Ward.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    I wonder
    1881 census RG11 Piece 1146 Folio 35 Page 21
    3 St George's Passage Portsea
    Margaret M. Carthy 45 Washerwoman born Ireland
    William Carthy 15 born India
    Margaret Carthy 10 India
    Ernest Carthy 4 Portsmouth
    Ada Ward 2 Niece Portsmouth

    The original image does have Margaret as Margaret M Carthy but with an Irish accent the enumerator would just write down what he thought he heard.

    As you say she is at Nazareth House in 1891.

    1901
    RG13 Piece 127 Folio 19 Page 30
    10 Sandwell?? Crescent Hampstead
    Hugh F K Picard 30
    Alice K Picard 29
    Alice C K Picard 5
    Edward A K Picard 10 months
    Alice Low 24
    Ada Ward 22 Servant Portsmouth, Hampshire


    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

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