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Thread: Hello Everyone

  1. #1
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    Default Hello Everyone

    Hello, I have been researching my family tree, including my wife's family, for about a year now. My ambition would be to trace my family name/clan, Leslie, back to the origin of the Leslie name in the 11th century (a Hungarian nobleman called Bartolph, who settled in Scotland circa 1068).

    But even if I don't manage that (it is an unrealistic ambition), I'm really enjoying the discovery process so far. I have a couple of brick walls, and a mystery that I will ask about on the relevant forums.

  2. #2
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    Yes somewhat ambitious!! No doubt you have seen the entry in Wiki but in case you haven't. I googled
    "Hungarian nobleman called Bartolph, who settled in Scotland circa 1068"

    "Bartolf also known as Bartholomew was a Scottish and Hungarian nobleman and the founder of the Leslie family, who currently serve as Earls of Leven and Earls of Rothes and Lord Newark, all of which are situated in the historic kingdom of Scotland. He came over from Hungary in 1067 with Margaret later St Margaret of Scotland.["

    and lots more info inc "According to the book "Historical records of the family of Leslie from 1067 to 1868-9 Vol.1"........continued
    Jill

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    Don't lose track of the fact that Leslie/Lesley is also an English surname. It's a relationship name from the Middle English female personal name Lecelin and nothing to do with Hungarian.*

    Perhaps you have evidence linking the family name to Scotland

    * Source: Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland.

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    Many thanks for your reply Jill. My wife and daughter carried out quite an extensive research on the famous side of the Leslie clan a few years ago, including Bartolf (to be honest, I think some of the information about him may be more legend than fact, but I still found it fascinating). Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

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    Thank you for replying Peter. The Leslie side of my family is definitely part of the Scottish Leslie clan, rather than the English Leslie (my maternal great grandfather, however, was from the Black Country). The origin, as you say, wasn't Hungarian, but was taken from the land that Bartolph/Bartolf was awarded in what is now Aberdeenshire by King Malcolm III of Scotland.

    My DNA analysis also shows a definite link to the east side of Scotland (Aberdeenshire, Angus, Fife - all historically clan Leslie land). And I'm from Dundee.

    Many thanks, Roger.

  6. #6

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    George Black's "Surname of Scotland" says that the surname Leslie/Lesslie is of comes from the barony of the same name. Earl David, brother of William the Lion, granted the lands of Lesslyn to Malcolm, son of Bartolf, a Fleming, sometime between 1171 and 1199. The next record mentioned is of Robert de Leslie, a rector of the church at Slaines in 1272. There's another couple of inches of column listing other early records.

    Of course, the clever trick is to establish a solid paper trail between then and more modern times!

    The name went from Scotland to France, becoming De Lisle.

    Do remember that as surnames became fixed, many unrelated families adopted the surnames of the landlords or Clan Chielfs.

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    Many thanks for your reply Lesley. It's interesting that you found the lands of Lesslyn were granted to Malcolm, Bartolf's son (I've also seen Bartolf referred to as Flemish, rather than Hungarian). It may be that it is legend, not fact, the story of King Malcolm III granting the lands of Lesslyn to Bartolf, for saving Queen Margaret.

  8. #8

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    George Black’s book is regarded as the authority on the subject. Since his death, it has been updated by his daughter, but nothing went into it unless the original records had been seen.

    I don’t keep my genealogy books at the office, but the next logical step would be to check when William the Lion and Malcolm III were on the throne, and when Bartolf and his son were around.

    BTW, the Royal biography sites say that Queen Margaret was born in Hungary to an English expat.

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    Thank you Lesley, I will look for George Black's book. It sounds very informative - useful to have a copy.

    Margaret was the daughter of Edward the Exile & Agatha (House of Wessex?), and sister of Edgar Aetheling. They returned to England from exile, although Edward died soon after arriving. Edgar was briefly declared king after Harold Godwinson was killed at Hastings, but was sent packing by William before he (Edgar) was formally crowned.

    They (Edgar, Agatha, Margaret, Cristina - Margaret's sister, and Bartolph) eventually set sail back to mainland Europe, but were blown off course by a storm and landed in Scotland. Margaret, is seems, had a very calming influence on King Malcolm III of Scotland, and they married. Bartolph, I believe, married Malcolm's sister and remained as Queen Margaret's councillor, and became the first governor of Edinburgh Castle.

    Many thanks, Roger.

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