Grandfathers brothers

[wcihchs]

Hi
I have been researching my grandfathers brothers
Richard Paxton b. 1885
George Paxton b 1888
William Paxton b 1882

My own grandfather John Thomas Paxton b 1876
Served with East Yorkshire Regiment 12 th Battalion
During Great War
He enlisted in Hull England, Dec 23, 1914
He was 37 yrs old and Dockworker in Hull

I am stuck on his brothers service.
I have checked a number sites, but can’t get things dialed in.
There’s a lot,of maybes, no way to corroborate them

Don’t have service numbers for them

Richard may have served in Royal Navy as a dock worker at sea ports abroad
On HMS Edgar. 1915?

George may have been in British Army
Durham light infantry
Lancaster Fusiliers
Sometime around 1915

William was a dock worker in Sunderland from age 17,possibly earlier.
Their dad Richard Paxton b 1851
Was a dock worker in Sunderland

William was also a fisherman, as my mum told,stories of him visiting his brother John Thomas Paxton in hull and always bringing fish after coming back from a North Sea trip.

This is background.
Would like to find their great war,records and if they served and where.

Any suggestions would be appreciated
Hope I have done this first thread correctly as it is a brick wall I am trying
To navigate

Thanks. Chris

[Pam Downes]

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately you might never find any service records for your relatives because, ironically, some were lost in a fire in 1931 and many more lost during bombing in 1941 in WW2. Only about 30% survive.

Let's start off with some background to everyone.

1881 census. Reference RG11/5000 folio 84 page 56
Living in Sunderland.
Richard PAXTON, mar, 29, dock labourer,
Mary A, wife, 31,
John Thos, son, 4, scholar,
William, son, 1
Isabella Michell, aunt, 40
All born Sunderland.

Richard Paxton married Mary Ann Muckells, March quarter 1875, Sunderland registration district.

Birth registrations
John Thomas, December quarter 1876, and William, December quarter 1879, both in Sunderland registration district with mother's maiden name of Muckells.

1891 census. Reference RG12/4143 folio 139 page 33
Living in Sunderland.
Richard PAXTON, mar, 40, labourer,
Mary A, wife, 40,
John T, son, 14,
William, son, 11
Margaret, daur, 9
Richard, son, 6
George, son, 3
All born Sunderland.

Birth registrations, all in Sunderland registration district with mother's maiden name of Muckells. (Muckills for George.)
Margaret, September quarter 1881
Richard, March quarter 1885
George, September 1887

By 1901, John Thomas had married Elizabeth Ann Drysdale (in 1898), and was living with her and their daughter Margaret in Sunderland. RG13/4719 folio 135 page 35.

In 1911, John and his some-what extended family were living in Hull, where John was a labourer on the dock.
Census reference RG14/28673 SN213

Back to Richard and Mary, who in 1901, are living in Sunderland with sons William, who is listed as aged 24, and Richard, 17, all the men listed as dock labourers. Census reference RG13/4719 folio 104 page 12.

George, aged 13, is a 'boy under detention' in the Boys Industrial School, Sunderland.

1911.

Richard junior, aged 26, is a first class stoker, on board HMS Edgar. Census ref RG14/34972 SN9999.

George, aged 23, is in Mhow Central India with C Squadron Inniskilling Dragoons. Census reference RG14/34980.

Can't find Richard senior, nor William in 1911.

Note that William's birth year is not the same as you found.

Pam

[wcihchs]

Pam Downes

Thank you for putting in the time to help my family history project.
I appreciate your help.
Sincerely

Chris Chiverton

[Pam Downes]

You're welcome , Chris.

Not quite finished with the background stuff - I'm hoping someone else might be slightly more help with the military side of things!

I think this is parents Richard and Mary in 1911.
Transcribed as Parlin on Findmypast and Patton on Ancestry. Third letter is definitely not an R (see Mary, married, labourer). I think it's an X written 'upright' instead of on its side, if you know what I mean.
Census reference RG14/30201 SN78. Richard aged 60, though Mary is only 51. Both born Sunderland, and Richard's occupation of labourer (dock) fits. Both visitors in the house of Michael Welsh.

Richard's death may be the one registered in March quarter 1912, Sunderland registration district, aged 60.
Interestingly, there's also a death registration for Mary Ann Paxton, aged 61, in the same quarter, same district.
Small paragraph in the Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette 05 January 1912. They died within a few days of each other, both dying of bronchitis. Buried in the same grave in Sunderland cemetery.

Still no luck finding William in 1911.

Pam

[elsinore]

Findmypast has a record of naval service for a Richard Paxton, born 15th February 1885, Sunderland, occupation Heater. Service Number 304451.

He served as a stoker on many vessels, including HMS Edgar between February and April 1911, which corroborates the entry on the 1911 census.

Peter

[wcihchs]

Hi Peter
Thanks for your help.
Does your info list his enlistment years?
Appreciate your help

Chris Chiverton

[elsinore]

Yes Chris,

From 7th July, 1903, initially for 12 years, but he was demobbed on 26th November 1918, so he must have signed on for a further 3 years.

Peter

[Pam Downes]

Hi Peter
Thanks for your help.
Does your info list his enlistment years?
Appreciate your help

Chris Chiverton

That was a brilliant find by Peter.
It's in the dataset British Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1924.
Richard signed up in 1903 for twelve years.
Gives you a description of him, tells you about his tattoos, and lists the ships he was on.

A-ha, thought so. It's also available (I think for free, once you've registered for an account) at The National Archives. (The UK ones, not the US.)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7119859

Re the 'for free' bit - see the yellow banner across the top of the page of the above link.

Pam

[wcihchs]

Pam,
Thanks for,tip,on Archives registering for free download.
I printed out Richard Paxton service record.
Served along time
Was paid a war gratuity in 1918
Did spend a few periods in cells,for unsure mod what infractions
Royal navy records are done well even at lower enlisted seaman level.
You get a good picture of what was going on

Thanks
Chris

[emmteeyess]

Adding onto the info Pam gave, my local insider information (in red) shows me that -

Richard Paxton married Mary Ann Muckells, March quarter 1875, Sunderland registration district.
"They married 05 Jan 1875 and the Sunderland Registrars ref M44/27 tells me it was either a Register Office, RC or possibly Methodist wedding (but not CofE)"

Birth registrations
John Thomas, December quarter 1876, and William, December quarter 1879, both in Sunderland registration district with mother's maiden name of Muckells.
"John Thomas dob was 25 Oct 1876 & William dob was 16 Sep 1879 "

Birth registrations, all in Sunderland registration district with mother's maiden name of Muckells. (Muckills for George.)
Margaret, September quarter 1881 - dob 17 Jul 1881
Richard, March quarter 1885 - dob 15 Feb 1885
George, September 1887 - dob 07 Jul 1887

By 1901, John Thomas had married Elizabeth Ann Drysdale (in 1898), and was living with her and their daughter Margaret in Sunderland. RG13/4719 folio 135 page 35.
"John T Paxton m Elizabeth A Drysdale 11 Apr 1898 at Holy Trinity Church, Sunderland (Sunderland Registrars ref C026BK20/397 - so CofE)
Margaret – dob 15 Mar 1899

Richard's death may be the one registered in March quarter 1912, Sunderland registration district, aged 60. - Died 30 Dec 1911
Interestingly, there's also a death registration for Mary Ann Paxton, aged 61, in the same quarter, same district. - Died 01 Jan 1912

They were both buried in Sunderland Cemetery on 04 Jan 1912 - in adjacent graves Ward 5a7183 and 5a7184 (they are adjacent so might have been one plot)
Richard is shown as Labourer, age 60 and died at 3 Spenceleys Lane and Mary Ann as widow of Richard Paxton, age 61 and died at 4 Spenceleys Lane - so possibly one of them was staying with a relative or neighbour 'next door' when they died.

I have much more detail - and will send you a pm, wcihchs
Cheers, MTS