1695 no baptism record?

[SimonDMD]

Hi, I have a burial record for a Jeffrey Poole in Llansaintffraid-ym-Mechain parish in 1695. It says "Jeffrey son of Jeffrey..."
Can I assume that he was a child because the father is named?

If that is the case, I am stumped trying to find his baptism record (having been through births line by line from 1654 to 1707 to begin with).

If he died in childbirth would he not have been baptised - hence no record?

Many thanks

Simon

[Lesley Robertson]

Simon, the first thing to remember is that not all records have survived. Damp, fire, carelessness, acid ink (certainly in 17th century) - it's a matter of being lucky. The first thing to do is see whether the records for your parish exist. The best place to check is GENUKI - one of the oldest and best of the UK genealogy sites.

If I saw an entry like that, I would start by looking for babies but then I would extend the search to toddlers and up. They say that the first 5 years were the hardest to survive. Birth registrations were only legally required in 1837, before that you must rely on the Church Registers.

Good luck!

[SimonDMD]

Hi Lesley, Thanks for replying. Via FindMyPast I have the link to the original parish births and burials book: https://
search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=gbprs%2fwal%2f4434178%2f00042

And I have been over every line more than once from 1654 to his death in 1695. There are faded lines but I am pretty sure there is no corresponding birth record. Hence I am wondering if children who were still born may not have a baptism record.

But generally, do you think if it says "Jeffrey son of Jeffrey Poole was buried..." then it is a child/minor being buried?

[suemalings]

Do you think he was born/baptised in Llansaintffraid-ym-Mechain too? If so what makes you think this?

[Pam Downes]

I very much doubt that still-born children would have been baptised.

Yes, I think where it says 'son of' then you're talking about a child/minor being buried. But if he was say, 10, when he died, he could very well have been baptised elsewhere. Think you need to look for baptisms/burials of other siblings in both that parish and other nearby ones.

[SimonDMD]

Thx Pam. His father is in the parish record as a warden in 1684. He is then the first child in the record. After him come 4 more siblings. They bordered Llanymynech parish and I've looked all over that as well. If he was not a child then that would throw a cat among the pigeons and add an extra generation.

If he was not baptised my only question then is could he have had a christian burial?

Really appreciating all the thoughts.

[SimonDMD]

Hi father was the parish warden in 1684, but I have just seen this:
"One thing to bear in mind is that children were not always baptised in the same village or town where they were born. Most first born children were baptised in the mother's home parish, but second and subsequent children were usually christened in the parish in which the parents lived."

[SimonDMD]

Hi Pam,
I just read this:
I have just seen this:
"One thing to bear in mind is that children were not always baptised in the same village or town where they were born. Most first born children were baptised in the mother's home parish, but second and subsequent children were usually christened in the parish in which the parents lived."

just need to find out where she came from

[pwholt]

The parish registers were kept in a chest which had two locks, each key held by a different person of authority. Unless both were together, the chest could not be opened. So, in the meantime, the minister kept notes of any services he did, and these were written up when the chest did get opened. However, the notes could go missing and the vicar might not notice. Or he might forget to write a note if he did private baptism at home of a child not expected to survive its birth. Thus you can get a burial without a baptism, or vice versa. And the register would not show any sign of something being missed out. I've seen plenty of missing entries in 40 years of research. pwholt

[SimonDMD]

The parish registers were kept in a chest which had two locks, each key held by a different person of authority. Unless both were together, the chest could not be opened. So, in the meantime, the minister kept notes of any services he did, and these were written up when the chest did get opened. However, the notes could go missing and the vicar might not notice. Or he might forget to write a note if he did private baptism at home of a child not expected to survive its birth. Thus you can get a burial without a baptism, or vice versa. And the register would not show any sign of something being missed out. I've seen plenty of missing entries in 40 years of research. pwholt

Thanks Peter, that is very interesting and I really appreciate you sharing this. Although it can be frustrating, the whole area of making educated guesses about the impact of human nature is interesting in its own right.

Do you agree that if a record says "Jeffrey son of Jeffrey was buried..." then it was a child/minor?

Thx again
Simon